Pokernoob's etiquette criticised PokerPlayer Magazine

    • Renmerb
      Renmerb
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 152
      In this months issue of PokerPlayer the etiquette of fellow PokerStrategist Tobias "Pokernoob" Reinkemeier is called into question in the Editors opening comments. The incident in question is the hand against Roland de Wolfe at the recent EPT Barcelona. If you don't know which hand, you can read about it in PokerStrategy news.

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/world-of-poker/PokerStars.com-EPT-Pokernoobs-bluff-catcher-makes-the-crowd-go-wild_23911

      The Editor generally goes on to say that this is bad etiquette, and the rules should be tightened up to avoid this sort of incident. He closes his article by calling those who use these grey areas of the rules "classless characters", a bit harsh I think you'll agree.

      Is there anything wrong with this type of play?
      If it is wrong, how do you stop it?

      In my own opinion, Tobias was playing within the rules and it is de Wolfes own fault he lost. He could have shown his hand and waited for Tobias to muck or show a winning hand.

      The only thing I wouldn't be happy with was the supposed fist pump and the slamming of the cards on the table, but I can understand being pleased at picking up the chips.

      Your opinion?
  • 22 replies
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      when he slammed the cards into the table it was pretty obvius someone was going to criticize him, it was a stupid thing to do imo what if the dealer makes a mistake and gives the pot to the wolfe? is being a douche that important?

      however de Wolfe mucked the winner hand so I don't know what rule should be changed , muck your cards = lose the pot
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      it's not even angleshooting, it's the best bluff ever :s_cool:

      ok, the fistpump and shouting is bad etiquette, but are they going to write an article about every guy who does this?
    • vhallee
      vhallee
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.09.2008 Posts: 1,539
      Expect an answer from Pokernoob about this whole situation in an interview very soon ;)
    • Kruppe
      Kruppe
      Black
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 2,144
      his reaction was completely ok imo, it wasn't a standard successful bluffcatch, it was much more special than that, so it's natural to react like that.
    • nafar84
      nafar84
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      Well the guys over at 2+2 definitely aren't loving him, though they seem to agree that the behaviours of De Wolfe and the dealer were also questionable.

      Personally I think that De Wolfe could have avoided all this had he just shown the hand, since technically the other guy paid to see both cards.
    • Kimber88
      Kimber88
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2008 Posts: 1,333
      Originally posted by nafar84
      Well the guys over at 2+2 definitely aren't loving him, though they seem to agree that the behaviours of De Wolfe and the dealer were also questionable.
      Well the general oppinion over there seems to be the same as here. de Wolfe was dumb. He showed one card and mucked his hand --> Tobias wins. The fistpump from Tobias was not appropriate imo. As far as I understand he wouldn't even have to show his hand to take down the pot after de Wolfe's muck?
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      Lol at this discussion seriously.

      So Tobias gets flamed because he wins a pot from somebody who is angleshooting?

      Roland only showed 1 card and tried to take the pot with that, but you need 2 cards to win. If you don't show 2 cards you don't win.
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      He doesn't have to show, but implied tilt odds are great
    • RahXephon1
      RahXephon1
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2009 Posts: 972
      You can argue that the fist pump was a little over the top, but how many times in a lifetime can you do something like that in an important event. I know I would be fist pumping, also from what I heard he apologized afterwards.

      For all other things that happened, the other guy made a dumb move and then the dealer also made some questionable things.

      I think that anyone who is a competitive player, must just bow to what Pokernoob did. It takes guts, observation skills, logical thinking in a fraction of a second.

      Those are the champion moves that can't be taught, you need them in your blood.
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      I agree with what Robbie said on the topic: http://teamblog.pokerstrategy.com/Queen_Six_One_Last_Time

      The people are criticising the wrong stuff. The fist pump isn't necessary and its ok to state this. Tobias apologized for it several times even.

      The unsportsmanlike conduct came from Roland though - so no point in flaming Tobias for not showing.
    • kingdippy2008
      kingdippy2008
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 2,107
      Yeah i agree with robbie, nice blog by him. The fact that he apologized for the fist pump is good of him but Roland should have shown both his cards and he clearly puts his cards into the muck and lets go of them.

      -Jack
    • Varekai
      Varekai
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2007 Posts: 27
      can anyone explain to me what angle shooting is?
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      basically: exploiting a loophole or a flaw in a rule.
    • Berkstajger
      Berkstajger
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.03.2009 Posts: 878
      For instance: http://www.poker-babes.com/poker/definitions/angle/

      Edit: still I don't quite understand what Pokernoob did. The way article explains it that de Wolfe mucked his hand and all the action took place AFTER that and I don't see any problem in that? Would appreciate more thorough explanation of the action...
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      Pokernoob check/called the river. De wolfe showed one card, then flipped it back and pushed both his cards past the line, and under the muck -- at this point, his hand is dead for those two reasons.
      Since DW's hand is dead, pokernoob shows the bluff (call). The dealer retrieves DW's hand and flips it over (which he shouldn't do).

      It was all 100% within the rules, and DW was just pissed because he made a stupid mistake and paid for it.
    • Faye6891
      Faye6891
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2007 Posts: 1,234
      Originally posted by swissmoumout
      The dealer retrieves DW's hand and flips it over (which he shouldn't do).
      RDW was dumb, dut I'd be very pissed off if the worse hand took down the pot AND the dumb dealer showed both my cards after I mucked them.
    • delete461
      delete461
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.07.2008 Posts: 1,036
      I think the dealer was right to retreive de wolfes cards and show them - since he was aggressor and his bet was called, he must show his cards first. De Wolfe tried to break the rules of the game by mucking without showing them, just as Tobias predicted he would.
    • mafaz
      mafaz
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2007 Posts: 222
      LOL i find it funny :)

      maybe theres a video somewhere? :)
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      It's not against the rules to muck when you're called, it's just a bad idea because then, the other player doesn't have to show his hand.. (see where this is going?)


      here's the vid:

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