Flop generator dependency?

    • marvinas
      marvinas
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      Joined: 23.04.2009 Posts: 70
      Oh how many times I, and I believe I'm not alone here, was crying silently after folding some trash, say 94o, and seeing flop to hit it beautifully, like 994. This makes me wonder - would flop be the same if I called? Or to put it another way, is flop (and turn and river) generated, or defined, at the time cards are being dealt, or some randomization takes place before each street? Any thoughts?

      ps This is supposed to be semi - serious thread, still it would be nice to hear something from poker room's representatives
  • 9 replies
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by marvinas
      would flop be the same if I called?
      No.
    • Cpwpoker
      Cpwpoker
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      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 706
      I think yes !

      In real live game the deck is shuffle before giving the cards to the players so even if a player call or not it should be the same flop turn and river.

      In random number generator think they generate all the hole card flop turn and river before giving out the hole cards.

      So if online poker is really "fair" it should have been the same if you called or not.
    • marvinas
      marvinas
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      Joined: 23.04.2009 Posts: 70
      In poker terms "fair" would be not dependent on player's holdings. As long as flops etc are really random, everything is fine.

      I've read somewhere that some poker rooms, pokerstars I think (was really long ago, so don't remember all details) are using "dynamic" random number generator, which takes into account things like players response time, bet size etc, and it reshuffles deck while hand is in progress. They say it makes the deck really random and impossible to fix the game. So I tend to agree with Nightfrost, which makes all those miracle hits just an eye candy. But hey, I can feel better about myself as a poker player :)
    • zloVkvetinaci
      zloVkvetinaci
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      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 155
      whether the deck is reshuffled I dont know - email pokerstars about that :) personally I think it wouldnt be fair to the rules - the deck shouldnt be shuffled after flop/streets


      pokerstars generates entropy by intel rng and by obtaining user input, but I doubt they reshuffle deck when hand is in progress
    • AugustusCaesar
      AugustusCaesar
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      Joined: 24.05.2008 Posts: 377
      Originally posted by marvinas
      Oh how many times I, and I believe I'm not alone here, was crying silently after folding some trash, say 94o, and seeing flop to hit it beautifully, like 994. This makes me wonder - would flop be the same if I called? Or to put it another way, is flop (and turn and river) generated, or defined, at the time cards are being dealt, or some randomization takes place before each street? Any thoughts?

      ps This is supposed to be semi - serious thread, still it would be nice to hear something from poker room's representatives
      I think yes it would

      But there is no reason to think about it as you made the right decision :f_p:
    • Jackalof
      Jackalof
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      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 1,462
      I read somewhere (in PokerStars site maybe) that cards are shuffled before dealing, meaning flop, turn and river is predetermined.

      Folding 94o is a correct play, no matter what flop brings, because you can never know the flop outcome. Limping those kind of hands is very bad play, but sometimes it pays off - pros call it bad beats (losing with AA against 94o) :f_p:
    • zloVkvetinaci
      zloVkvetinaci
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      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 155
      just found out - pokerstars preshuffles and then the deck stays..full tilt shuffles until a card is requested from the deck..but it really doesnt matter:)
    • Cpwpoker
      Cpwpoker
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      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 706
      Originally posted by zloVkvetinaci
      just found out - pokerstars preshuffles and then the deck stays..full tilt shuffles until a card is requested from the deck..but it really doesnt matter:)
      That why sometimes the generator is retard >_<!!!!
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
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      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      It makes no diffrence and its not worth worrying about, the only outcome is the one that you see.

      Even if decks are shuffled on each street in the long term the deck is still tied to probability and flush drew will still be 3-1 on the flop, floping a set will still be 7-1, on the turn hitting yyour gut shot on the river will still be like 12-1.