Beating 20$ SnG's

    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
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      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Even though i play 5$ SnG's i am really curious if you think/know that you can beat the 20$ BI (iPoker if it has any semnificance) only with the bronze and silver articles.

      I'm asking this because i think i have a decent game but i sometimes (not rarely) not push like SnG Wizard says (i tend to be tighter). I have some sort of blow-up tendencies, not that it matters to the thread. Doesn't anybody like to steal the blinds hand after hand after hand and piss of your opponents ?
  • 18 replies
    • FWKanobi
      FWKanobi
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      Joined: 13.02.2009 Posts: 740
      Originally posted by andreibalint
      Even though i play 5$ SnG's i am really curious if you think/know that you can beat the 20$ BI (iPoker if it has any semnificance) only with the bronze and silver articles.

      I'm asking this because i think i have a decent game but i sometimes (not rarely) not push like SnG Wizard says (i tend to be tighter). I have some sort of blow-up tendencies, not that it matters to the thread. Doesn't anybody like to steal the blinds hand after hand after hand and piss of your opponents ?
      Regular or Turbo ?
      How much is your ICM score after 100 hands ?
      I strongly suggest not to play outside your bankroll , poker is not ALL about skill :D
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
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      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Nope i won't play outside of my bankroll. As i said, i'm just curious. And i like the regular SnG's. The slower the blinds increase the better because i'm trying to go to push/fold stage as late as possible.

      How much is your ICM score after 100 hands ?

      I have absolutely no clue where can i find out. With ICM Trainer?
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
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      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Scored 98% at Easy with SnG Wizard. I'll try average and expert later.
    • FWKanobi
      FWKanobi
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      Joined: 13.02.2009 Posts: 740
      Originally posted by andreibalint
      Scored 98% at Easy with SnG Wizard. I'll try average and expert later.
      Download ICM trainer from Pokerstrategy.com
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
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      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      IM also more tight then the ICM trainer suggests like you. You won't see me push all in with a 4-5 suited for example like it suggests in some cases or even with any cards.


      Unless i really have no choice to push all in with an average/bad hand i'd rather wait for an average-good one and then push all in. Because then i atleast know i made the right decision. especially if you have 10BB left you really don't have to risk all your chips with a less then average hand.


      Your saying your bankroll is big enough for $20 meaning you have over a $1000 then you should try it and see how it goes. if you lose alot you should go to the lower buy-ins again.
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      The only thing i am saying is that i'm curios if you can beat 20$ with the bronze and silver articles.
      I'm not saying i am playing 20$sngs, nor that i have 1k in my account, nor that i want to play outside my BRM.
    • Atoks
      Atoks
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      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,354
      The higher the stakes the more solid reads u need on the regulars that u meet at the tables. ICM will help but I think knowing ur opponent is a lot more important. If u want to seriously beat the higher stakes I'd advise u to try and learn to take good notes on people and how to employ them.
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      Passing up on +EV spots is very damaging to your roi. Too many people think about the sng they are in. Think long term. If you pass up +EV spots you will not beat the $20's.
      I am not saying never pass up on marginal +EV spots, like if you have a lose player in the bb you are in the sb with a mid stack, I might pass on a small +EV spot and I say might.

      If you play too tight you will not beat $22+ maybe not even the $11's you will blind out so often and take far too many thirds.

      Just keep on the icm trainer as much as possible

      If you pass up on a spot that is say 0.5+EV then you are costing yourself $0.50 in a $100 SNG so in a $20 it is costing you $0.10. Not much you might say, but skip this edge just 220 times and that is a buyin for just one move you are passing up on
    • lennonac
      lennonac
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      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      But I do play Turbos where passing on a +EV spot is much more damaging. In normals I guess you can pass on the small edges without it having too much of an effect.
    • EagleStar88
      EagleStar88
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      Joined: 06.10.2008 Posts: 7,359
      Originally posted by andreibalint
      The only thing i am saying is that i'm curios if you can beat 20$ with the bronze and silver articles.
      I'm not saying i am playing 20$sngs, nor that i have 1k in my account, nor that i want to play outside my BRM.
      Yes you can, but like others have already stated, it gets a lot tougher around $20/$30 buy in and you have to adapt to others play a lot quicker.

      The good thing about playing them and the higher ones is that if you play the odd lower BI sng, they seem really easy.

      But yeah, follow BRM and only move up when you have 50BI otherwise your BR will suffer badly.

      Best regards,


      Bart
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421


      The good thing about playing them and the higher ones is that if you play the odd lower BI sng, they seem really easy.

      Best regards,


      Bart
      This is very true, I played a few $5.50's yesterday, placed in all but one :s_cool:
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
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      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Thanks.
    • NickParkes
      NickParkes
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      Joined: 07.07.2008 Posts: 1,526
      I play up to the $33s on ipoker... if you play like you described, i.e. tighter than SNGwiz ICM trainer you will struggle... if anything I often play looser in specific spots because players are too tight... the $22 bubble is very different to the $5.50 bubble, and if you're too tight you simply get crushed.... Understanding the dynamics of adjusting to opponent's ranges is one of the most NB things in these situations...
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      It isn't very on topic but i scored 95% at Average using ICM Trainer. Expert to go.... Well, i have somehow found my answer about 20$BI but i have to get there to find out. A very nice 25BI downswing just hit like a tornado. One minute i'm crushing 5$ with an average roi (1$BI+2$+5$) of 18%, the next one i lose more than 33% of my bankroll, get 0% on 5$ and an average of 11%. Sweet!
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Want to hear something funny? I'm aproaching a samplesize of 1000games at 20$ BI (normal, 9handed), and i'm losing money.
      And at the 10$ level i have something like 4%ROI X( -i've ran super bad but 1000 games has to say something.

      Suggestions??? - i'm playing after Moshman's book on SNG's (stuff like any 2 push UTG for <5BB, going insane with +30% of your stack on the table preflop, 99+, AQs+ EP raise, you know the drill; my ICM is decent, 92-96%).
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
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      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Originally posted by andreibalint
      Want to hear something funny? I'm aproaching a samplesize of 1000games at 20$ BI (normal, 9handed), and i'm losing money.
      And at the 10$ level i have something like 4%ROI X( -i've ran super bad but 1000 games has to say something.

      Suggestions??? -
      Yeah.... Don't play $20's. 4% ROI on 10's isnt very good atall. Even if you turn out to be able to just beat 20's the 10's will still be more profitable... I wouldnt think about moving up if your ROI is under 10%.

      If Len or Nick want to correct me or add something they can because im more of a cash game player.
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
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      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Of course i won't move up. Problem is how do i improve my game?

      I must be making some big mistakes that drag my ROI so low, but i don't feel i make them.

      I think i am a little too agressive, but not whitout a purpose.
    • 8979687
      8979687
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      Joined: 11.11.2008 Posts: 2,225
      Originally posted by andreibalint
      Of course i won't move up. Problem is how do i improve my game?

      I must be making some big mistakes that drag my ROI so low, but i don't feel i make them.

      I think i am a little too agressive, but not whitout a purpose.
      I think your second sentence can be a big part of your answer.

      If you are reviewing your games, you will definately find spots where you were not sure if you made a mistake or not.

      Everyone will even Moshman himself when you watch his videos, at the end he finds one or two spots that
      he is unsure of wether he made the optimal play or not and then reviewed the hand.

      When you come across these situations, post them in the hand evaluation section and let the pro judges
      let you know for sure if you are making the optimal play or if you have a leak in a certain type of situation.

      It is very easy to convince yourself that you made the right play.

      It is much better to have a third party view on it so you can get an unbiased opinion on your play.

      Like Lennonac posted earlier in this thread, just one -$ev mistake you keep making over and over can have
      a noticeable effect on your ROI in the long term. Be absolutely sure you are making as few of these as possible
      rather than assume you are playing a near perfect game.