When do you bet into the aggressor on the flop?

  • 14 replies
    • wilm
      wilm
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.07.2006 Posts: 1,583
      If u have a strong draw. Like a flushdraw or OESD.

      Always check-raise top-pair hands!
    • frzl
      frzl
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      mh its not that easy i think ^^
      there is a article called "protection" but i don´t know if you need to be silver or gold.

      a view hints:
      first of all you need to know what you want. should most opponents fold or should they pay as much as possible because you want some value for your flush draw or something ?

      e.g.:
      utg raises, 3 players call, you call in the big blind.
      the flop comes and you are first to act. (preflop aggressor is one seat to your right)

      if you have top pair and you want to protect it you should bet and hope that utg raises and faces the 3 other players with 2 bets.

      if you have a flushdraw you should most of the time check/raise because you don´t want to face the other guy with 2 bets because they will fold most of the time and you will be heads up utg who is likely to have a made hand.

      another one:
      utg limps, MP limps, CO limps, BU raises, you call in the BB and all call
      you are again first to act but the preflopaggressor is to your left.

      now its a different situation. if you want to protect your top pait or something you should check/raise because there is a good chance that BU will bet and you can confrontate the other 2 players with 2 bets.

      if you have a flushdraw you should bet to trap MP and CO and to build a pot without losing players.


      i think thats the basic idea. of course there are a lot of different scenarios but i think you can understand the logic behind it when you read this example. i think there is a very good chapter about protection in ssh.

      and again: there are a lot of situation where you have to think hard to figure out the correct play. how many opponents do you have ? which kind of opponents are you facing ? whats the board ? and so on...
    • frzl
      frzl
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      whoops forgot something:

      http://www.pokerstrategy.org.uk/en/strategy/51/

      imho one of the best and most usefull artivles at pokerstrategy.
    • wilm
      wilm
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.07.2006 Posts: 1,583
      Protection is for Gold status if im correct.

      I have a litle offtopic question for u btw frzl. Im playing 0.5/1 SH atm and play something like 14hours 2tables. Do u think its possible for me to reach gold status? Did u get gold at 0.5/1?
    • frzl
      frzl
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      hm i´m playing fl at other poker sites and got my gold status by playing nl50 and nl100 sss.
      but there is a pp calc at the mainpage. i will have a look.

      a friend of mine reached gold status playing 6 tables 0,25/0,50 ^^

      but he´s a sicko so give me a view minutes ;)

      but i think you should be able to beat 0,5/1 and 1/2 sh with the stuff in the silver section. imo there are only 3 very important topics you really need at this limits which are in the gold section: protection !!!, semi bluff and free card raise.

      again i have to say that these 3 topics are explained in a great manner in ssh by sklansky :)

      okay... now i will searsch the pp calc ^^
    • frzl
      frzl
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      ok at fl 0,5/1 sh about 40% of the hands are raked. and per raked hand you will receive 0,15 pp
      so you will have to play a little bit over 5300 raked hands to get gold status.
      that means you will have to play 13-14k hands at 0,5/1 within one month.

      hm thats possible for sure but don´t try to add 4 more tables or something only to raise your status :)
    • wilm
      wilm
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.07.2006 Posts: 1,583
      Thanks for the information frzl. So if my calculations are right i have to play a few more hours so i can get gold status. Dont worry i wont fuck up my game to get gold status =)

      I will try to read those 3 topics you ment in ssh =)

      Again thx for the info!
    • Pacer357
      Pacer357
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2007 Posts: 1,807
      Ok, what about donking into the PF raiser HU. Do you ever and if so why.
    • frzl
      frzl
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      at my limits i nearly never do it but i saw in a coaching that someone donked into a mainiac, got raised, called the raise and donked the turn again with the intention to 3-bet.
      but i´m not sure ^^
      i think at the lower limits its ok to do the standard moves most of the time ^^
    • Pacer357
      Pacer357
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2007 Posts: 1,807
      Ok you might have a point there to get three bets in against a maniac. I never do it HU myself but I see quite a lot of it in the low limits and it´s almost always air.You got the same fealing?
    • frzl
      frzl
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      i think a donk can mean anything most of the time ^^
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      frzl you mean on the left side (not right)

      Donking is often wrong (that one of the reasons why its called "donk" ^^)

      Even if you want to isolate you with the preflop raiser you need to select carefully because the worst thing is that you give the PFR a chance to make a correct decision (either by folding to your donk or raise you with a better hand)
      If he makes correct decision (maniacs for example often doesn't do that ^^) and raises the 3rd player often folds with a weaker hand and you loose much money.
    • frzl
      frzl
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      maybe i wrote left instead of right (i´m too tired to read it again ^^) but i think you can understand what i meant when i wrote it ^^
    • Classical
      Classical
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.03.2007 Posts: 1,041
      Originally posted by frzl
      another one:
      utg limps, MP limps, CO limps, BU raises, you call in the BB and all call
      you are again first to act but the preflopaggressor is to your right.
      [...]
      if you have a flushdraw you should bet to trap MP and CO and to build a pot without losing players.
      I encountered a situation like this yesterday, donked, and it worked like a charm. Too bad I didn't hit the flush and ended up 3-splitting the pot with MP and CO, all three of us beating BU! :)