Help me put together a poker presentation!

    • nafar84
      nafar84
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      Well I got my cousin and his business partner interested in investing in me for poker. They have a good economics and business background so it wasn't hard to explain to them that poker is basically equity trading and that you make money from others' poor decisions in the long run.

      Now I need to deliver the final punch in the form of a comprehensive powerpoint presentation because they need to be 100% convinced in order to show the money. What I would appreciate from you guys is to provide feedback and ideas for the structure and content of the presentation. Here is my basic outline so far:

      1- Introduction to Poker
      1.1- Basic rules.
      1.2- NL Holdem, the poker boom and its implications on the profitability of the game.
      1.3- Introduction to equity and odds; similarities with stock or forex trading; short-term vs long-term (variance).

      2- Mathematics of Poker
      2.1- Hand groupings and strengths.
      2.2- Hand/Pot/Implied odds.
      2.3- Hand ranges, equity vs range & introduction to player stats (HUDs).
      2.4- Winrate, standard deviation, graphs.

      3- Strategies for beating the game
      3.1- All about EV.
      3.2- +EV decision-making based on stats, image, and perceived image.
      3.3- Power of position, table selection.
      3.4- Bankroll Management.

      OK, how is it looking so far?
      Content-wise I will defnitely need to copy&paste some bits and pieces (I'm not going to reinvent the wheel here)... so please link to any good articles*, forum posts etc... relating to any of the bulletpoints.

      * - If the site you're linking to is likely prohibited here, just quote the whole article here.

      Thanks :)
  • 16 replies
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 456
      I'm not good at presentations but it's definitely worth pointing out that in stocks trading there is no real certainty of ever being correct. It doesn't matter how good your trading strategy is, you can still be a long term loser.

      In poker, if you play a mathematically correct game then over a long term period you are guaranteed to make a profit. When others make mistakes when playing against your mathematically correct game you make even more money.

      The outcome of a poker career is not affected in any way by global economies or the decisions of high flying city traders - In stocks etc you can be certain of an impending up trend and get your money in - Within a couple of days you could well find that all the city boys have dropped their positions and you're screwed. The closest you get to that in poker is some moron calling your aces with 72o and sucking out. The difference with poker is that in the long run those plays will make you money. The equivelant in the financial markets will leave you a bankrupt cowering mess looking over the edge of a cliff and wondering if it'll hurt when you hit the floor.
    • Jackalof
      Jackalof
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 1,462
      Wow, could you enlighten me about poker similarities with forex trading?

      Amazed,

      Jackalof
    • fakedurrr
      fakedurrr
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 725
      hey, good luck buddy
      U should even explain or be moe specific in ur presentation type (variant, num. of players, stakes, regulars, site etc) u are playing so that they would know what to expect from all of that and u should make a note for BRM in ur point about avriance

      BTW post that presenation here when u are finished :) maybe then we can find more to add or at least we can see ur work :)
      GL
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      Awesome post wurble :D

      @Nafar: How much money are you talking about (if it isn't indiscreet)? Unless you've already beaten the limit you plan on playing at over a large sample size, but had to cashout for whatever reason, it's *way* better using your own money to move up the limits one by one. That way, you also learn step-by-step -- the basic stuff first, which you can verify if it works well for you, then as you move up, some slightly more advanced strategy each time.
      The exception would be if you're being staked and coached by a better player...

      That aside, the points I would put most emphasis on (well, at least when explaining poker to friends or family) are bankroll management, table selection, and tracker software / stats. Just to show that:
      1. I always play against weaker players than myself
      2. I often check my stats to find any leaks, or things that my opponents could exploit, as well as review sessions whenever necessary in order to find mistakes i made during play
      3. I can afford to lose X buyins, and will move down when my bankroll is too small. in other words: I can't go broke.

      Those are the key points, and I think you can just skim the rest -- for instance, on point 2.3, show them your HUD, explain briefly what it does and how it helps, but no need to explain what the different stats actually are.

      Something else that you could add to the deal is coaching. Say, every 25k hands or so, they pay for ~2 hours of private coaching -- 1 hour of reviewing your stats and perhaps hand analysis (5 or so biggest losses and wins), and 1h of watching you play. That way, your investors know not only that you're a good investment to start with, but that you'll get more profitable the more you play
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 456
      @Jackalof

      There are loads lol I used to trade Forex before I learned to play poker - It's pretty much the same game when you break the strategies down, it's just with poker you can almost guarantee a profit with good play.

      That's not the case with Forex lol
    • Jackalof
      Jackalof
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 1,462
      I use play money for Forex so far, because you need a huge bankroll there. Writing master thesis about it.

      Thing is, you can't beat Forex like you can beat poker limit. In poker you're against other players, in Forex it's a bit more complicated. But you're right, indeed there are quite some similarities, just never thought about it :f_grin:

      BACK TO THE TOPIC: good luck with the presentation, emphasise your advantage over weaker players; EV-related material always looks stunning for folks who are not into poker that much, so be sure to talk about that as well.
    • nafar84
      nafar84
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      @swissmoutmout: For starters they're going to cover 50% of my current bankroll while I'm still only playing part-time, with the intention of investing more and allowing me to go full-time (thus "employing" me) when they see positive trends over a few months. So for now I only have to carry on playing my current limit (NL50 SH @ around 50BI).

      So yeah I should probably add that a good part of my poker time is dedicated to improving my game and plugging leaks (I'll mention this site and stoxpoker/cardrunners), in order to make sure that I'm prepared to gradually move up limits. I will propose the private coaching as part of the full-time deal.

      With regards to the HUD & stats, you're right - there's no need to go into detail... perhaps just a simple example or two of using these stats in action.


      @Wurble: Good stuff, noted down. Thanks!
      @fakedurr: Yeah I think I'll add something like "3.5: My Strategy" to go into more detail of what it is exactly that I'm doing (NL50 SH), hands/month, rakeback, expectations, the points at which I'm going to move up/down in accordance with my BRM.

      And yeah I'm definitely uploading this thing when it's done as a group effort and contribution to the community. Would be nice to just be able to hand out this single presentation to anyone interested in poker and they'd immediately be able to understand that good money can reliably be made.
      So if anyone finds some more good stuff to add, please keep it coming!


      -------------------------------


      Okay I will need some help with regards to the winrate/standard deviation/variance thing. What exactly do they need to know as investors? Is this one of the areas where I should go into as much detail as possible?

      Also, I'm not exactly sure how much "low-level" strategy I should go into as opposed to "big-picture" strategy. I imagine there's no need to get into the daily grind situations like what to do when facing a check/raise with top pair/good kicker etc... right?


      I hope to get some sort of initial draft going by the end of next week... and I will post it here for more feedback.
    • luvr7
      luvr7
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.07.2009 Posts: 16
      Sounds pretty interesting. I think you've covered the basics. I don't think they need to be concerned with the finer points of playing unless they wanna play themselves. I'm also interested to see the finished product, even if it's only to help convince my Mom it's not just some gambling game.
    • aceonetheriver
      aceonetheriver
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2008 Posts: 591
      Originally posted by luvr7
      I'm also interested to see the finished product.

      can u post a link ?
    • fakedurrr
      fakedurrr
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 725
      SO how does that goes? are u done yet ? U promised to post here the final work rememer? D:
    • nafar84
      nafar84
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      I'm running a bit behind schedule... besides a sick sick $1000 under EV (20 buy-ins!!!!) downer this month which has really demoralized me for now. Project is still on though.
    • nafar84
      nafar84
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
    • andyb43
      andyb43
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2008 Posts: 903
      Originally posted by nafar84
      I'm running a bit behind schedule... besides a sick sick $1000 under EV (20 buy-ins!!!!) downer this month which has really demoralized me for now. Project is still on though.
      This would have been a good time then to get this presentaion finished ...... :D

      If your investors are real and not just cousins or something humoring you, you shouldn't really be leaving them hanging about. If you are treating your poker like a real business venture............get off your ass, your downswing will still be there when you start playing again. :s_biggrin:
    • Kruppe
      Kruppe
      Black
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 2,144
      just because i like to fill men's hearts with despair, i'm going to point out that no matter how many hands you play and how good you are, winning isn't guaranteed. :P

      and concerning the topic: maybe include a graph with a huge sample size or graphs with different sample sizes, going up to 2m hands or so?
    • nafar84
      nafar84
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      Originally posted by andyb43
      This would have been a good time then to get this presentaion finished ...... :D

      If your investors are real and not just cousins or something humoring you, you shouldn't really be leaving them hanging about. If you are treating your poker like a real business venture............get off your ass, your downswing will still be there when you start playing again. :s_biggrin:
      Originally posted by Kruppe
      just because i like to fill men's hearts with despair, i'm going to point out that no matter how many hands you play and how good you are, winning isn't guaranteed.

      and concerning the topic: maybe include a graph with a huge sample size or graphs with different sample sizes, going up to 2m hands or so?
      You guys are right, I'm just absolutely sickened by this month, and don't feel like talking about how poker is profitable when I'm $1700 down after almost 60k hands. It's just MEH. The EV line doesn't even tell the whole story.... I lost count of how many times I flopped a set or top2, yet got my money in drawing almost dead with villain flopping the nut flush or straight. Blind v Blind lagtard villain (with 30% 3bet) I get it in with Queens - oops, he has the bullets of course! 4bet a habitual squeezer with AKo - oops, he has the bullets of course! Hit my set of jacks on the turn after KTx flop? No problem! he has AQ of course (a hand that he limp/called with)! I have AK and villain floats Jxx flop... turn and river K and A... he has QT of course! gaaaaaaah I should've easily been up 2k or more.
      /ramble

      Please November be good to me :f_frown:
    • Justin37
      Justin37
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2009 Posts: 445
      Tell them poker is less risky compare to play share or forex OR even buying jackpot ticket!