[NL2-NL10] A couple of hands (first time here)

    • Fome
      Fome
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.05.2007 Posts: 15
      So this is my first try of getting some hands analyzed :)

      BU was pretty loose (in on 45% of his 40 hands), and also quite agressive post flop

      0,05/0,10 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.7 by www.pokerstrategy.cc.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with K:heart: , K:diamond:
      UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $0,10, 3 folds, BU calls $0,10, SB folds, Hero raises to $0,30, MP1 calls $0,20, BU calls $0,20.

      Flop: ($0,95) 4:spade: , 3:heart: , 5:diamond: (3 players)
      Hero bets $1, MP1 folds, BU calls $1,00.

      Turn: ($2,95) A:club: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $1, Hero folds.

      Final Pot: $3,95


      Seems to me he could hold a lot of things here. Like A7o or K2s or stuff like that. His betting seems like drawing too.
      ----------------------


      SB unknown

      0,05/0,10 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.7 by www.pokerstrategy.cc.

      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9:diamond: , T:diamond:
      3 folds, MP2 calls $0,10, Hero calls $0,10, 2 folds, SB calls $0,05, BB checks.

      Flop: ($0,40) A:spade: , 8:diamond: , 7:heart: (4 players)
      SB bets $0,25, 2 folds, Hero calls $0,25.

      Turn: ($0,90) K:heart: (2 players)
      SB bets $0,25, Hero calls $0,25.

      River: ($1,40) J:heart: (2 players)
      SB bets $1,11, Hero raises to $2,23, SB raises to $3,35, Hero calls $1,12.

      Final Pot: $8,10

      Should I fold my straight to a possible flush?

      ---------------------


      UTG+1 was loose (48% played)

      0,05/0,10 No-Limit Hold'em (10 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.7 by www.pokerstrategy.cc.

      Preflop: Hero is CO with 7:diamond: , A:diamond:
      UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $0,40, 4 folds, Hero calls $0,40, 3 folds.

      Flop: ($0,95) A:spade: , K:heart: , Q:spade: (2 players)
      UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $0,70, UTG+1 raises to $1,50, Hero folds.

      Final Pot: $3,15

      I was mostly afraid of two pairs here, since he both raised preflop and postflop.

      ------------------------


      MP1 is very loose (85% of 17 hands played, J5o fra MP), SB is semi loose (25% of 16 hands)

      0,05/0,10 No-Limit Hold'em (10 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.7 by www.pokerstrategy.cc.

      Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q:club: , A:spade:
      Hero calls $0,10, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls $0,10, MP1 raises to $0,20, 4 folds, SB raises to $0,40, BB folds, Hero calls $0,30, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $0,20.

      Flop: ($1,40) 8:club: , A:heart: , 3:spade: (3 players)
      SB bets $0,30, Hero raises to $1,00, 2 folds.

      Final Pot: $2,70


      --------------
  • 12 replies
    • mchaggis
      mchaggis
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.09.2006 Posts: 157
      1) I'd raise to 0.6 pf
      2) uhm, dunno, there's a flush and higher straight possible, I'd just call. If he's got you beat he'll push, if he doesn't he usually wont call a raise?
      3) I'd fold pre-flop, too much chance of being docminated.
      Your ace isn't very strong, very drawy board, defo a fold.
      4) Raise preflop
    • degnic
      degnic
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.02.2007 Posts: 3,953
      1st hand raise to 0,60$ preflop, you can easily lose to crap hands like A2 at the flop with your KK if you let people limp in easily with their hands. especially you want to raise to this amount if someone plays loose. Moreover, I don't know how much you have money left at the first hand (are you playing with SSS??), but I would probably put all-in in the river anyway because you are already pot commited (if it is that you don't have much more than dollar anyway). People will bluff you often if you fold hands like KK in these situations.

      2nd hand you already should've folded preflop if you play SSS. but it's well played here in my opinion otherwise. very unlikely imo that SB would bet over half of the pot at the flop with just 2 hearts or QT (which are the only hands that could beat you). anyway, good call in my opinion. most likely SB had 2 pairs the way I see it.

      3rd hand - fold preflop. Especially if you are afraid to play the hand even if ace comes in the flop. basicly you are gambling for either 2 pairs or 2 sevens or flush at the flop and fold to a bet if none of those comes

      4th hand - slowplay at the flop by just calling because there are basicly no straight or flush possibilities. maybe the third one also limps in and SB most likely keeps betting at the turn when it would be good time to raise.
    • Fome
      Fome
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.05.2007 Posts: 15
      Thanks for the advice. I have a few follow-up questions:

      First of all, I'm not playing SSS so I don't need to be that tight.

      1st hand: The reason I didn't raised to 6BB was that the table seemed to be very afraid of raises. Everyone folded regularly on 3BB raises. I was thinking that KK is a hand that can take some heat and that it would be better to lure some more people in. Was that a mistake? Should one be happy to get 1.5BB with KK?

      3rd hand: If he had limped A7s would be fine right? I thought it would be fine anyway since he was very loose and I had position.

      4th hand: by just calling the flop wouldn't I give drawing odds for two pairs, if any of the players had a lower pair? Maybe I should have raised to $0.5 or something?

      Thanks again for the advice. It was fun having some hands analyzed :)
    • mchaggis
      mchaggis
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.09.2006 Posts: 157
      Should one be happy to get 1.5BB with KK?
      Well, If u ask me, 1.5BB is better than -13BB?
    • degnic
      degnic
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.02.2007 Posts: 3,953
      Originally posted by Fome
      4th hand: by just calling the flop wouldn't I give drawing odds for two pairs, if any of the players had a lower pair? Maybe I should have raised to $0.5 or something?
      well, the chances of others getting another pair are as big as yours, I think it would be good thing to call here and see what the turn brings, ofcourse it's a risk that someone might get 2 pairs, but it's worth it. Now you just scare others away :p

      and A7s is a good limping in hand from good position, especially if there are many limpers behind you. but not that good hand calling a raise especially when there still are people behind you (everyone folds - you get bad odds basicly, or someone might reraise - again you have to wish for fortuna at flop)
    • Fome
      Fome
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.05.2007 Posts: 15
      McHaggis: But will that ever be the case? A hand like KK seems pretty easy to play post flop. You will mostly know when you are beaten and you won't be drawing to anything, so if you are beaten you will fold before 13BB are gone? Let's put it another way: If you knew that no one had AA and an All-In bet would scare everyone away, would you always go all-in? I've been playing mostly limit poker and in limit the blinds seems to be worth much more than in No Limit.

      Even the SSS is not recommending going All-In on KK, but raising and go all-in no matter what the flop brings. I thought this was because you wanted some action preflop with a hand like that.

      Degnic: I see now that I'm not competing against two pair since any pair will pair my hand to. As long as I don't give odds for a set I should be OK. Thanks for the advice, I will play this kind of hand better the next time :)
    • mchaggis
      mchaggis
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.09.2006 Posts: 157
      Originally posted by Fome
      McHaggis: But will that ever be the case? A hand like KK seems pretty easy to play post flop. You will mostly know when you are beaten and you won't be drawing to anything, so if you are beaten you will fold before 13BB are gone? Let's put it another way: If you knew that no one had AA and an All-In bet would scare everyone away, would you always go all-in? I've been playing mostly limit poker and in limit the blinds seems to be worth much more than in No Limit.

      Even the SSS is not recommending going All-In on KK, but raising and go all-in no matter what the flop brings. I thought this was because you wanted some action preflop with a hand like that.

      Degnic: I see now that I'm not competing against two pair since any pair will pair my hand to. As long as I don't give odds for a set I should be OK. Thanks for the advice, I will play this kind of hand better the next time :)
      What hands can you put your opponents on? Well, almost any, I'd say. They would call that smallish raise with any suited connector, any ace, any pocket pair. You are OOP. You will have to do the 1st move on every street so any scare card can be a problem. If you raise the right amount you can at least rule out some hands AND you get more money in when they pay you off.

      About the blinds: bet sizes in NL are far far greater than in FL compared with blinds.
    • Fome
      Fome
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.05.2007 Posts: 15
      I'm starting to see your point :)

      But still... The Fundamental Theorem of Poker says you should force people to make mistakes. If you bet too high with a KK won't you just make sure people play correctly by folding? The only hand that is good enough to correctly call a KK is AA right? Is this a situation where TFoP is in conflict with getting good information?

      "About the blinds: bet sizes in NL are far far greater than in FL compared with blinds."

      My point exactly. That is why I was thinking that stealing blinds is not a good idea in NL (especially with KK)
    • undercover82
      undercover82
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 813
      There are 2 points about why you should make a normal raise with premium hands instead of luring more people in.
      First , your hand like KK or AA is very powerful preflop , but loses lots of equity after the flop. Meaning that while you have the strongest hand preflop , by allowing many players in ,your chances to win decrease dramatically.
      Second , if you make smaller raises with your premium hands , your opponents might eventually pick on that or make notes that you have a monster. So you arent concealing your hand very good if you make that play only with very good hands.
      If it was the right play in any case , i believe that's what PS would teach you , but when all the pros raise these hands the normal amount , its obvious that you are making the mistake here. Still , it's your decision.
    • Fome
      Fome
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.05.2007 Posts: 15
      Two more points:

      First of all, I didn't raise any lower than my other raises so nobody could detect any thing.

      Second, I get that it's not good to let a lot of people in, but as I said the table were acting pretty tight, so I knew that not many people would call (only two did). Is it still bad playing KK vs two other people (that probably are loose)?

      I just want to say that I'm not replying because I think I'm right and you are all wrong. I just think it is good to have hands analyzed, but even better to understand the thought behind the responses. And I think monster preflop hands are hard to play correctly. I hope it's OK :)
    • mchaggis
      mchaggis
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.09.2006 Posts: 157
      Playing OOP is never very pleasent, so let them pay more for their position.
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      Stack sizes? Without which all discussion is moot.