NL$0,05/$0,10 Starting hands NOT working out.

    • fakethat2
      fakethat2
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2009 Posts: 4
      This is ridiculous.

      I have trouble getting blinds even paid back.

      I can't presume anything, like if someone is bluffing or not.

      I'm getting blinded out.

      I'm following everything the guide says, but I'm not even getting past the pre-flop where I have to fold numerous times.

      9 player game, NL $0,5/$0,10
      I made something like 6 rotations, and I had 1 win, in wich I had JJ pre-flop, someone raised with 20, then someone raised with 60. The rest folded, and I went to 2,40 raise with just $0,60 left in my stack.
      The one with the 20 raise folded, the one with the 0,60 raise called all in and there we went. No face cards on the flop, one A and another 7 or something.
      I won with JJ.

      YES.
      No...

      Ridiculous. It doesn't make sense at all.
      The starting hands strategy says QQ is a raise if no one raises before you. Right?
      I was in middle-late position. And I raised to 40 because everyone folded. What happened?

      Well, my reasoning is that if everyone folds, there must be (on a 9 player table the chances are high at least) a King or Ace in a position behind me. Although I'm in middle late position, due to the pre-flop round this also means that you've got the 2 blinds behind you as well. So I had 4 or 5 people still waiting to call or reraise my bet.
      The rest in front of me folded, meaning no, or barely any face cards
      in their starting hands, obviously.
      And do the math, 2 guys behind me called with barely anything but hoping for an Ace or King. No one had a face card at all except for them and me. 2 Queens are already in my hand, meaning no chance for a third Q ever to hit the flop, and an extremely high chance for an Ace or King to appear on the flop.

      AK7 flop.

      There you go. Meaning 0,40 just thrown away. Checking as the first one in row meaning a very weak position with a 99% chance a player would raise after me.

      There it was, I was in a raise pre flop, I hit AK7 on the flop and I HAVE NO CHOICE but to check. And I get raised out with obvious reasons.

      What is the deal with this whole dumb strategy.

      I had one win in wich I had an all-in situation in my advantage and I went from $4,00 buy in, to 5,10 something and then I dropped back in blinds waiting for another playable card. This is ridiculous. I mean it.

      This strategy thing says you can't raise with minimum raise.
      Well I see everyone folding without even calling the big blind, so if you've got decent cards and still want to make a profit it's best to split the risk into more people then to just Push through any decent card you have, with a raise that scares everyone off.

      No strategy whatsoever if you ask me. I can't get ANY decent money out of my ENORMOUSLY good hands according to this starting hands guide. Because it's either QQ raise and then getting raised off with a AK7 flop, or you get a QQ with a high winning chance, and you raise everyone off.

      Not winning nearly enough for keeping my blinds affordable.
      On a 9-man table, explain that.

      I notice I'm not posting in a beginners strategy forum but a general beginners forum. Could someone please move my thread?
  • 15 replies
    • THeGaME23
      THeGaME23
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2009 Posts: 398
      Play more than 1 or 2 tables at once. You'll see that it may take a while but eventually you will get quite a few good hands. And a lot of the time you might just take the blinds with Aces or Kings, but thats fine. And yeah sometimes your hands are going to get cracked (yesterday I had aces loose in an all in pre flop pot worth 8 dollars, and at the same time kings loose with an all in pre flop pot worth 6, to far worse hands like 66, and 78s) But you have to take the good with the bad in poker or you will never suceed. This strategy does work though, just keep at it, try to know exactly what to do in every situation so you can play 6+ tables at once. Just be patient and if you follow the strategy completely your luck should come around soon.
    • Swire
      Swire
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.08.2009 Posts: 320
      Imo sticking to the basic strategy is a mistake. If you keep rebuying over and over again the profit from your big hands wont be as much as the amount you are losing from blinds. I haven't got great experience at 10nl sss so im not sure whether loosing up at that level is profitable at lp and mp. But my advice would be to loosen up and take note of the type of hands calling your steals etc.
    • slowshow
      slowshow
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2009 Posts: 99
      Well sample size must be quite big to make any conclusion. Now im going like 9 multitable SSS, so far so good. There can be downswings for like 2k hands, like it was yesterday for me -200 big blinds. A bit whack-a-weasel tho :f_biggrin:
    • THeGaME23
      THeGaME23
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2009 Posts: 398
      Originally posted by Swire
      Imo sticking to the basic strategy is a mistake. If you keep rebuying over and over again the profit from your big hands wont be as much as the amount you are losing from blinds. I haven't got great experience at 10nl sss so im not sure whether loosing up at that level is profitable at lp and mp. But my advice would be to loosen up and take note of the type of hands calling your steals etc.
      Bad idea, only open up your range in the small blind with a lot of limpers. Opening your range in other positions just makes you lose money, I've learned that the hard way more than a few times. Just pick your tables well, multitable around 6 tables and stick to the basic strats, it's an up and down strategy but in the long run it will work out.
    • jonnyquest
      jonnyquest
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2009 Posts: 285
      Originally posted by fakethat2
      I had one win in wich I had an all-in situation in my advantage and I went from $4,00 buy in, to 5,10 something and then I dropped back in blinds waiting for another playable card. This is ridiculous. I mean it.
      Hi there.

      I felt just the way you did when I first started. It was very frustrating. If you're having trouble finding the patience to wait for premium hands, multitable. The time between playable hands becomes way shorter and it will be more fun.

      Most importantly, you should be buying in for 20bb which at NL10 is $2.00. Then refill when you fall below 15bb and leave the table when you've won a pot and your stack is more than 25bb. SSS will only work if you buy in with a short stack! Try to get it all in pre-flop with your big hands. You'll get plenty of callers with garbage at the NL10 tables.

      I know you're only making a buck or two at a time but SSS works. I've been playing SSS for less than 3 weeks. Week 1 I single tabled and made less than $3.00. Week 2 I 2 tabled and made almost $5.00. This week I 8-12 tabled and I already cleared my bonus, got some rakeback and am now rolled comfortably for NL25.

      SSS Works! Just play it by the book and be patient.

      Good luck.
    • inf4my
      inf4my
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.02.2008 Posts: 91
      You are focusing waaaaaay too much on the short term OP.

      Poker is all about the long run. And the long run is loooooooooooong. Until you have at least 200k hands under your belt, you basically have no idea what you're talking about :)

      In your next session, you might get AA 5 times, and KK 5 times, and double up on all 10 hands. Then you'll come back and read this thread and feel pretty silly for making such conclusive statements after only a few hundred hands.
    • fakethat2
      fakethat2
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2009 Posts: 4
      Thank you for the advice.

      I'm still experimenting at the moment.
      Maybe it was bad luck or something.
      But I did find that it took an awfull long time for me to get that hand that was necessary according to the starting hands guide.

      I'm also noticing that I'm not gaining much with the very agressive 4BB bets.
      On hands that I'm going to win anyway.

      And I notice that I can often bluff someone out with a minimal 1BB bet as well, but not making my loss very big if the person calls.

      It's about the bet itsself. Not how high the bet is.
      That is if someone checks before you that is. Then the bet doesn't really matter, as long as you bet anything, it doesn't really matter.

      But right, I'm still learning so yeah.
      I hope I'm going to get to 300 partypoints in time.
    • deVall3y
      deVall3y
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2009 Posts: 554
      op the truth is a decent win rate for short stacking is 1 bb after 100 hands on average. this means you play 100 hands to win $0.1. on the way, you can win 5.7$ lose $8 and win again $2.4. and it doesnt mean that after 100 hands you end up with 1 bb profit either.
      thats why I suggest to slowly add tables but first you have to make sure you play a good game and always work on improving. then when you become good and can multi table the money will start pouring in. for now dont deviate too much from the basic strategy because even if it doesnt feel like it, you are most likely a beginner. you will know when the time is right
    • fakethat2
      fakethat2
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2009 Posts: 4
      Another question regarding the limits I'm playing.
      I used the 50$ free starting money from this site, to play on partypoker.com

      Then you can, if you stick to good bank roll management, play NL10.

      Very nice and all, but you can't earn partypoints through there.
      It's not possible to get 300 partypoints with succesfull BRM.

      How should I do this?

      I mean, everything is possible because I would have to play a sickening amount of time for the coming 3 months or so. But how much do you have to play on average to get those 300 partypoints.
      1BB every 100 hands. Means... I would have to play enormous amounts of hands in order to proceed to a next limit and standing even the slightest chance to succesfully reach my 300 partypoints.

      That's not possible.

      So is it even smart to stick to bank roll management if I still have to get my 300 party points in the coming 80 days?

      It's not is it.

      Today I accidently played in NL50 all the time. (Confused about succesfull BRM) And realised afterwards that that wasn't allowed yet unless you've got $300 in your account. Wich I obviously have not.

      But I collected 8 party points today with SSS, playing a whole freaking day, maybe 5 hours. So..
      It's only possible if I continue like this.

      Is this a very dangerous move? I can't see myself pulling off 300 party points in any other way.

      Edit: And thank you I will remember to stick to it for the long run.
      I understand what you were saying about the percentages.
    • lozz08
      lozz08
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 106
      Hi, I too started with SSS, the first time I played with SSS I was like, "this sucks"

      THen I learned that playing online poker at low limits is all about multitabling, well, that is to say, you've really GOT to multitable, and that goes 100% for SSS.

      Experiment playing with 4-6 tables on NL2. Get used to it, and then move back up. If you follow your charts and multitable well, you will be fine sir.
    • ladman
      ladman
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.04.2009 Posts: 289
      Making 300 pts is not essential. 1) Don't play so long if its not fun. When its not fun is when you should stop.
      2) PLus if you lay the foundations of a good game you will make more money in the long run, which is what its all about, then gaining the bonus
    • tokyoaces
      tokyoaces
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2009 Posts: 1,883
      Originally posted by deVall3y
      op the truth is a decent win rate for short stacking is 1 bb after 100 hands on average.
      Are you sure? I looked back at some stats I had an all my limits were hovering around 2ptbb/100 which is .40 per 100 at that limit ...
    • Dendra
      Dendra
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2009 Posts: 479
      clearing the bonus with sss on nl10 shouldnt be a problem but on the topic of your losses - too much fear can be negative, example being your thoughts on how they must have an ace or king since ur in middle position and there are several players left behind you and etc. as you stated

      not sure how much flexibility you got in sss but for example in bss you often fire conti bet on the flop and take it down with lets say QQ even though there is both A and K on the board - because often your opponents will miss the board, just because there's an ace there doesnt mean someone has a pair of aces now, hence you have bets and various moves to find out what your opponent has.

      aggressive players are popular nowadays because they make you fear them, you are worried about what they have and should you call, the truth is that they often dont have anything just like you, but simply because they are the aggressors, your decisions can be much harder to make.

      however with NL SSS you dont have much to worry about, just follow the chart and even if you lose a hand by following the chart, it doesnt mean you made a bad move - you will see in the long run that the chart is made to help you build up your bankroll, just dont tilt away your money after a bad beat because bead beats+few wrong moves can be costly.
    • fun101rockets
      fun101rockets
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,162
      if u want real poker play bss nl2 imo
    • noclaninator
      noclaninator
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2008 Posts: 312
      Points shouldn't be your main focus.... unless you are on partypoker. Since partypoker sucks balls if you do not get 300 points in like 3 months they take away your starting capital (not the profits). Fortunately, 4 tables of NL10 SSS for 1-2 hours a day is enough to clear. Do not fret, just learn to multi table.