1 Table Sit N Go's - Least BR swings?

    • THeGaME23
      THeGaME23
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2009 Posts: 398
      Do you think that 1 table sit n gos have the least BR variance compared to multi table tourneys and cash games? (Im talking in general terms, obviously some players are best at one and bad at the other)
  • 12 replies
    • Genetals
      Genetals
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.02.2009 Posts: 91
      sngs have smaller swings than mtts but bigger ones than cash games
    • EagleStar88
      EagleStar88
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.10.2008 Posts: 7,359
      Originally posted by Genetals
      sngs have smaller swings than mtts but bigger ones than cash games
      +1 Totally agree.

      Also backed up by the recommended BRM used for each.
      25x/30xBI for cash tables
      50xBI for SnG's
      100xBI for MTT's


      Bart
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      I realised lately that even 50BI for SnG's is too little. Let's take an example. You play 2$BI and get to 250$ so switch to 5$. Now you must play the 5$ until you go to 500$ and get to 10$BI or to 100$ for the 2$.

      Problem is from 250$ to 100$ it's only 30BI and i'm not considering rake! IF you have a 30BI downswing you'll lose 50%+ of your bankroll and be basically cripled. And 30BI CAN happen (for me it did).
    • EagleStar88
      EagleStar88
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.10.2008 Posts: 7,359
      I generally go above the recommended BR before moving up for the reasons stated. This gives you a buffer gap whilst getting used to/adapting to the new level.

      I personally would suggest moving up when you have at least 55/60 BIx the next level Buyin (ignore fee for this purpose) but move back down if you fall to below 50xBI.


      Bart
    • THeGaME23
      THeGaME23
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2009 Posts: 398
      Yeah im just kind of experimenting with sit n go's so far, mostly to take a break from all the SSS ive been playing over the last week. Its a nice change but I dont think i'll make it my main game over SSS cash games.
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      50 BI is a real minimum if you ask me.. I'm a lot nittier.

      Also use the general rule; more tables or higher buy-in or faster games --> higher bankroll requirement.
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,402
      I personally would suggest moving up when you have at least 55/60 BIx the next level Buyin (ignore fee for this purpose) but move back down if you fall to below 50xBI.


      Hey Eagle, thanks for this. Could you give some idea of how much more conservative we need to get as we move up?

      I'm thinking that as our ROI per tournament drops (our edge), we have to expect bigger downswings measured in buyins.

      So, let's say move up to $11+1 with 55-60 BI. When would you move up to $22+2? and when $33+3? What method would you use to get your new required BR?


      @ Viewer,

      Could you tell me your BR requirments - I think you are on the 16$? - Cheers!

      Thanks
      Tim
    • Anssi
      Anssi
      Black
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 2,173
      I wouldn't play 50+'s under 100 BI, 200 feels more comfortable.
    • EagleStar88
      EagleStar88
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.10.2008 Posts: 7,359
      Hi Tim64,

      Your quite right, as you progress up, the skill level of your opponents gets a lot better.
      At $5's & $10's, the longest losing sequence i had was circa 5 or 6, but at $30's I've just recently had a sequence of 12 losing, might have had one slightly longer but would have to check my records. I've heard others often having 20+ sequences on higher levels.
      My ROI on $30's & $50's was 1/2 that of $10's & below too, possibly even slightly worse now after a recent downturn.

      In answer to your question, I personally like to try to consistently "beat" each level comfortably before moving up (irrespective of BR), because the experience you gain in getting a consistent edge against your competitors on $10's is invaluable knowledge for dealing with $20's and so on up the chain.

      I'm still comfortably rolled for $50's, but prefer to play on $30's due to the safer more conservative BRM and I still haven't fully cracked the 30's yet. Still more I can learn before going up.

      I don't know if it's useful to you guys, you may have found different, however I noticed a distinct increase in player standard going from 10's to 20's on FTP, so make sure you're happy with your 10's game before making the move.

      Good luck & best regards,


      Bart


      Edit: Just checked and I had one (8x losing sequence) on lower limits and one (16x losing sequence) shortly after joining $20's, otherwise nothing above 12x in a row, but I think I've been pretty lucky, allow for more.
      Don't forget it's not just about the losing sequences either. If your not hitting 1st's regularly, you will slowly leak BR, consistent 3rd's are simply not enough.

      Please note, I'm not a coach, views expressed are my own and don't represent any official PokerStrategy advice. I'm just passing on my own experiences as an ordinary member of the forum (mods are members too, first & foremost ;) )
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,402
      Thanks all. My longest run of not cashing was 12 - like yours but, as you say, any sequence where we are only making the odd 2nd or 3rd here or there is going to result in a BR dip.

      Well, current plan is to move to the 22+2 with 62BI and not move up to the 33s until I have 75BI. But any scary stories about 30+BI swings at 33s will make me think twice...
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      Originally posted by Tim64

      @ Viewer,

      Could you tell me your BR requirments - I think you are on the 16$? - Cheers!

      Thanks
      Tim
      Yeah I don't play games I have less then 150 buyins for.

      I usualy play 16$'s or 27$'s (thinly vailed brag ofcourse :f_cool: ). I think a big raison for being so nitty is multitabling. I play 16-20 table sets, it's swingy and the swings can be big.

      I do take occasional shots at like 35$ sng's, but play less tables so the swings are not so huge.

      I don't think my bankroll is like optimal for making as much $$ as fast as possible, but I'm more comfortable with it this way so meh :s_confused:
    • mishkagg
      mishkagg
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.07.2008 Posts: 1,354
      I think I've had like 12 BI downswing at most. I use 100 BI for the $2 turbos and 100 for the $6 turbos on FTP. When I grind it to above $1000 roll I am going to think about the $10. Below $10 is not fun for me and I am playing scared.

      I count cleared bonuses/rakeback/TAF money as bankroll too btw.