[NL2-NL10] TT on BU, BB re-raise

    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Holdem
      9 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG ($27.10)
      UTG+1 ($50)
      MP1 ($79.70)
      MP2 ($25.80)
      MP3 ($20.30)
      CO ($50.95)
      Hero ($7.25)
      SB ($50)
      BB ($45.60)

      Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 9 players) Hero is BTN T: T:
      UTG calls $0.50, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.50, 1 fold, BB raises to $7, UTG folds, MP2 calls $6.50, Hero raises to $7.25, BB calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25

      Flop: K: Q: J: ($22.50, 3 players)
      BB bets $20, MP2 calls $18.55

      Turn: :7h: ($61.05, 3 players)

      River: K: ($61.05, 3 players)

      Fold preflop?

      BB - 529/32/12
      MP2 - unknown
  • 12 replies
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Hey elhh82,

      do you have BB's 3-bet perhaps?

      If it is 0-3% I might fold, but considering his stats are 32/12, he seems like a bad player and I would just ship my TT, specially with money already in the pot your needed equity decreases.

      Regards,
      burek2000
    • RahXephon1
      RahXephon1
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2009 Posts: 972
      You have just 14bb preflop here, so with 2 limpers you need to push directly preflop, as you are committed on any flop and you don't want it to become a threeway pot with your tens.
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by RahXephon1
      You have just 14bb preflop here, so with 2 limpers you need to push directly preflop, as you are committed on any flop and you don't want it to become a threeway pot with your tens.
      Oops, I probably missed the decreased hero's stack, of course it's better to directly ship it with 2 limpers and 14.5BB stack.
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      yeap, agreed. no idea why i didn't ship it there.

      BAD me, BAD donkey!
    • tigerK
      tigerK
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.10.2008 Posts: 4,566
      Put an auto-rebuy 20bb to avoid this kind of trouble.

      If you're a wining player, it will increase your winrate.
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      i auto rebuy at 13BB :)

      this kinds of situation is exactly why i rebuy lower, so i can shipt it easily. just missed it somehow.
    • tigerK
      tigerK
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.10.2008 Posts: 4,566
      Originally posted by tigerK
      Put an auto-rebuy 20bb.
      If you're a wining player, it will increase your winrate.
      Just think about it.


      i auto rebuy at 13BB
      this kinds of situation is exactly why i rebuy lower, so i can shipt it easily.
      I'm glad you have reasons for doing it wrong.
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      no tiger, im afraid you are wrong in this spot

      and this has been discussed by the coaches quite a bit during SSS coachings

      watch the SSS videos, you won't see anyone doing auto rebuys to 20BB immediately. It's just suboptimal to do so.

      if you want to maximize your win rate, just play 100BB :)
    • tigerK
      tigerK
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.10.2008 Posts: 4,566
      Originally posted by elhh82
      no tiger, im afraid you are wrong in this spot

      and this has been discussed by the coaches quite a bit during SSS coachings

      watch the SSS videos, you won't see anyone doing auto rebuys to 20BB immediately. It's just suboptimal to do so.
      Hum, I'm going to open a thread about that. If there already a thread on the english community, please link it to me, might be interesting ;) .
      But, still, it makes no doubt to me that 20bb auto-rebuy is the best solution for SSS players. I don't see any reason why it would be less ev+ than rebuying at 13bb for example. At the opposite...


      if you want to maximize your win rate, just play 100BB :)
      Ahah. Fair enough :)
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      well for one, 20BB is not the mathematically optimal stack for SSS, its actually even shorter than that, somewhere like 15-18BB (i don't actually know the exact value)

      we want to make the easiest decisions with SSS. A shorter stack reduces our options and makes our decisions easy, and cuts out mistakes too.

      I like to rebuy when i reach the middle positions, coz at CO,BU,SB,BB these are the nice steal and re-steal positions. And often times with a marginal hand, a push will be ok with shorter stack, but will be tough to do with 20BB.

      The clearest example is when you are facing aggresive stealers. It's hard for you to resteal if you have a full 20bb stack. But with say 13BB, its an easy shove with many many hands. Even if you lose, you make a stand and it wasn't too expensive. The guy will think twice the next time.

      But this also depends on the situation on the table. If i'm playing against some massive fish, i will always fill up my stack to gain the maximum value. But my auto-rebuy is set at 13 (i just like the number), some would tell you 10.
    • RahXephon1
      RahXephon1
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2009 Posts: 972
      My oppinion is that on loose tables with fishes IP it's optimal to rebuy, since you mostly make money from monsters, maybe it could be even optimal to play with a sligthly increased stack, to gain maximum value from them adn having some more postflop playability.

      If you face a agressive stealer on your right, or a blind on your left that defends blinds solidly, you have many more option with a 16bb stack for example as defending with semibluff restealing becomes an option (if stealer folds enough) and sklansky pushes becomes more profitable against the blind. Also hands like the one from OP, get incredibly profitable with a direct push, as is extremely hard to play TT for example OOP against 2 loose limpers with 23bb stack, as a threeway pot is very likely, in which case the TT is as good as 33 on many flops. If you have 17bb however and you push, you get all the advantages of being ahead a lot of their range preflop and you will collect the blinds uncontested in most cases and in the other be mostly pretty ahead of the range of the caller.
    • raun
      raun
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.07.2007 Posts: 746
      Originally posted by RahXephon1
      My oppinion is that on loose tables with fishes IP it's optimal to rebuy, since you mostly make money from monsters, maybe it could be even optimal to play with a sligthly increased stack, to gain maximum value from them adn having some more postflop playability.

      If you face a agressive stealer on your right, or a blind on your left that defends blinds solidly, you have many more option with a 16bb stack for example as defending with semibluff restealing becomes an option (if stealer folds enough) and sklansky pushes becomes more profitable against the blind. Also hands like the one from OP, get incredibly profitable with a direct push, as is extremely hard to play TT for example OOP against 2 loose limpers with 23bb stack, as a threeway pot is very likely, in which case the TT is as good as 33 on many flops. If you have 17bb however and you push, you get all the advantages of being ahead a lot of their range preflop and you will collect the blinds uncontested in most cases and in the other be mostly pretty ahead of the range of the caller.
      +1

      i agree it depends on the table. if people are tight or are showing you a lot of respect its better to sit with a smaller stack and the other way around on a loose/fishy table where people dont respect you much.

      and in steal situations its much nicer to sit with a pretty small stack.