Is it possible to get lucky with SSS?

    • jonnyquest
      jonnyquest
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2009 Posts: 285
      Hi everyone.

      I'm really frustrated right now. Had another losing session last night. I've only had 2 winning sessions during the weekend evenings. Do Americans ever fold? I have been looking at hands and stats and find I'm playing very very tight during these sessions since I get action from at least 2 opponents everytime I push pre flop. Last night for example I shoved pre flop 23 times I ran into a bigger pair twice, got no action 4 times, and won as a favorite 3 times and lost as a favorite 9 times and lost all 5 hands with AK. In the end I was down 8 buy ins.

      It seems like when I win, I win a huge pot because of all the callers, but I rarely win because of so many callers. Am I doing anything wrong? Last night I had a vp$ip of 5 and pfr of 5. When reviewing these hands with equilator I see my odds of winning aren't very high with AA or KK when I'm all in 4 handed. How do I get Americans to fold monsters like QTo pre flop? Do they start folding at higher limits? If I always get in as a favorite I can't get lucky, instead I have to suffer through bad beats. I thought it was good to play against loose passive players, maybe I'm wrong, should I avoid these games/times? I'm currently playing NL25 at full tilt.

      I'm really frustrated right now and any advice would help me out a lot right now.

      Thanks
  • 13 replies
    • slowshow
      slowshow
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      Joined: 17.07.2009 Posts: 99
      1) Sample size?
      2) Stats?
      3) Graph?

      Its impossible to think about Your situation without actual data. SSS is swingy(sometimes up, sometimes down) keep that in mind.
    • jonnyquest
      jonnyquest
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2009 Posts: 285
      I've only played 12k hands so I only have a very small sample(I know I need to be more patient).
      As far as stats, I have been having some problems with elephant since I started playing on a different PC. Some stats I wrote down from NL10 are vp$ip 12 pfr 11 w$sd 53 w$wsf 38. To be honest I'm not to familiar with stats and I don't really use them during play since I haven't figured out. How to work the HUD. I don't even know what those stats all mean. I wrote those down because they are the stats that drastically change when I'm losing. When I'm losing like last night my stats were approximately vp$ip 5 pfr 5 w$sd 22 w$wsf24. My other stats win or lose don't change as much. Is this part of my problem? I don't know how to post stats or graphs and can't always get my hand histories to load on elephant.

      Thanks
    • THeGaME23
      THeGaME23
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2009 Posts: 398
      Originally posted by jonnyquest
      I've only played 12k hands so I only have a very small sample(I know I need to be more patient).
      As far as stats, I have been having some problems with elephant since I started playing on a different PC. Some stats I wrote down from NL10 are vp$ip 12 pfr 11 w$sd 53 w$wsf 38. To be honest I'm not to familiar with stats and I don't really use them during play since I haven't figured out. How to work the HUD. I don't even know what those stats all mean. I wrote those down because they are the stats that drastically change when I'm losing. When I'm losing like last night my stats were approximately vp$ip 5 pfr 5 w$sd 22 w$wsf24. My other stats win or lose don't change as much. Is this part of my problem? I don't know how to post stats or graphs and can't always get my hand histories to load on elephant.

      Thanks
      VPIP of 12 is too loose for SSS. And you seem to be over agressive. My VPIP is around 7.6 after 15000 hands and I dont even play the SHC all the time.
    • FineWork
      FineWork
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      Joined: 02.09.2009 Posts: 28
      learn full stacked play you wont regret
    • slowshow
      slowshow
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      Joined: 17.07.2009 Posts: 99
      Still too little data. Well You say that people play bad and that leads to suckouts. Poker basics: if your oponents play bad, thats +EV for you. Longterm.

      For example, i play very, very tight, however sometimes i do steal blinds, my VPIP is 6,5. Your is 12. Too loose, man.

      My w$wsf and w$sd seem something similar, so i would say You have problem preflop.
    • jonnyquest
      jonnyquest
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2009 Posts: 285
      Originally posted by slowshow
      Still too little data. Well You say that people play bad and that leads to suckouts. Poker basics: if your oponents play bad, thats +EV for you. Longterm.

      For example, i play very, very tight, however sometimes i do steal blinds, my VPIP is 6,5. Your is 12. Too loose, man.

      My w$wsf and w$sd seem something similar, so i would say You have problem preflop.
      When I'm winning my VPIP is 12, this is when playing against European players. When i'm losing my VPIP is 5. I probably am too aggressive, i've basically been just shoving all in with my playable hands and been getting 2-5 callers. I tried making normal raises but then I get pretty much the entire table calling. Is my table selection wrong? NL25 i'm sitting where avg pot is $7+ and players to flop is around 40%-60%.

      Thanks for the all the advice guys I'm feeling much better knowing I can fix this.

      Cheers
    • slowshow
      slowshow
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2009 Posts: 99
      Originally posted by jonnyquest
      Originally posted by slowshow
      Still too little data. Well You say that people play bad and that leads to suckouts. Poker basics: if your oponents play bad, thats +EV for you. Longterm.

      For example, i play very, very tight, however sometimes i do steal blinds, my VPIP is 6,5. Your is 12. Too loose, man.

      My w$wsf and w$sd seem something similar, so i would say You have problem preflop.
      When I'm winning my VPIP is 12, this is when playing against European players. When i'm losing my VPIP is 5. I probably am too aggressive, i've basically been just shoving all in with my playable hands and been getting 2-5 callers. I tried making normal raises but then I get pretty much the entire table calling. Is my table selection wrong? NL25 i'm sitting where avg pot is $7+ and players to flop is around 40%-60%.

      Thanks for the all the advice guys I'm feeling much better knowing I can fix this.

      Cheers

      Well if all table is calling your rise(or all-n), that should lead to huge pot and SSS heaven! So what about suckouts, its clearly +EV, if You play FR and have SHC range!! So, to be profitable You need small equity actually ... :f_confused:

      Usually SSS players are being hurt by blind steals and no action at all, Your problem sounds like not a problem at all ...
    • MikeB570
      MikeB570
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.05.2009 Posts: 72
      Originally posted by FineWork
      learn full stacked play you wont regret
      +1

      There are so many fish at NL5, NL10 and even NL25 (where I am now) that you are missing out on value by shortstacking.
    • jonnyquest
      jonnyquest
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2009 Posts: 285
      Originally posted by slowshow
      Well if all table is calling your rise(or all-n), that should lead to huge pot and SSS heaven! So what about suckouts, its clearly +EV, if You play FR and have SHC range!! So, to be profitable You need small equity actually ... :f_confused:

      Usually SSS players are being hurt by blind steals and no action at all, Your problem sounds like not a problem at all ...
      Hi

      I don't understand what you mean in the bolded text, could you please clarify. I thought these situations were what I was looking for but its not working out. The rare thimes I win a pot they are huge, just not big enough to make me climb into profit. So you're saying this should all work out in the long run?
    • jonnyquest
      jonnyquest
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2009 Posts: 285
      Originally posted by MikeB570
      Originally posted by FineWork
      learn full stacked play you wont regret
      +1

      There are so many fish at NL5, NL10 and even NL25 (where I am now) that you are missing out on value by shortstacking.
      I am reading up on BSS currently. My biggest concern is my BRM. I currently seem to be stuck around $200. This would mean that I would drop down to NL5 right? All the idiots at NL5 and NL10 really got to me. I'm actually surprised how little the quality of players have improved at NL25. I was hoping to make the switch to BSS at NL25 or higher. Would it make sense to big stack at NL5 during some sessions and continue to short stack NL25 during others?

      Cheers
    • slowshow
      slowshow
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2009 Posts: 99
      Originally posted by jonnyquest
      Originally posted by slowshow
      Well if all table is calling your rise(or all-n), that should lead to huge pot and SSS heaven! So what about suckouts, its clearly +EV, if You play FR and have SHC range!! So, to be profitable You need small equity actually ... :f_confused:

      Usually SSS players are being hurt by blind steals and no action at all, Your problem sounds like not a problem at all ...
      Hi

      I don't understand what you mean in the bolded text, could you please clarify. I thought these situations were what I was looking for but its not working out. The rare thimes I win a pot they are huge, just not big enough to make me climb into profit. So you're saying this should all work out in the long run?
      Equity is % at given moment that You will win pot. Its great stuff when we are measuring opopnents using ranges. Try using Poker Strategy Equilator to analyze hands. For example: if there are 4 limpers and You rise + go all-in, they call as You say, thats 4 * 20bb + Your 20bb.

      So its like 20% of pot is Your commitment amd 80% is others. So, Your chances to win must be greater than 20%. By SHC range Your equity is far greater than 20%, so its +EV. Try to run hands Equilator.

      If You are loosing then You are doing something wrong or hit by downswing.
    • jonnyquest
      jonnyquest
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2009 Posts: 285
      Hi Slowshow.

      I just read and re-read articles about equity. I also recently started using equilator. I see what you mean, I should be up about 65+ buy-ins with all the premium hands I've been getting. I think I've been in a downswing for about 5k hands. My bankroll was dropping at an alarming rate. I was on my last session before having to move down a limit when I finally came out a winner. Looks like I may be coming out of this downswing. I've also tightened up some and dialled back the agrression a little too. Thanks for all the advice you've given in this post and others. It's helped me climb out of this downswing without tilting away my bankroll.

      Cheers
    • slowshow
      slowshow
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2009 Posts: 99
      :f_thumbsup: Thats forum is all about!