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[NL2-NL10] check raise flop......

    • Ishindar
      Joined: 31.12.2008 Posts: 259
      $0.5/$1 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      villan is a lag 36/28, 25bb/100 win rate after 300hands, 21% c/r flop so i give him credit and fold. but!! ive hit variance hard and my edge is negated so i have to question everything to keep perspective. 7k hands and only breaking even (i only average 500 a day and used to 6bb/100 win rate). last few weeks playing nl100 on ftp it seems that c/r the flop is being overdone by villans. as much as 70% c/r the flop by villans and catching them doing this with air. i would appreciate some perspective on this! some sessions it feels im not hitting flop for up to five times in a row and as the preflop raiser i make conti bet only to be c/r a disproportionate amount of times. i this the new move against shortstackers?
      Known players:
      MP1 = ($67.00)
      MP2 = ($31.95)
      MP3 = ($128.85)
      CO = ($20.00)
      BU(Hero) = ($18.50)
      SB = ($20.50)
      BB = ($20.00)
      UTG1 = ($92.95)
      UTG2 = ($20.00)

      Preflop: Hero is BU with A, 8.
      4 folds, MP3 raises to $3.00, CO folds, Hero calls $3.00, 2 folds.

      Flop: ($7.5) 3, Q, K (2 players)
      MP3 checks, Hero bets $5.00, MP3 raises to $10.00, Hero folds, MP3 gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $12.5.
  • 3 replies
    • burek2000
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,107
      Hey Ishindar,

      why do you call preflop? What do you expect to hit on the flop with A8? Also, don't expect to outplay a good lag with initiative, so just shove preflop against 36/28 MP3 openraiser with A8.

      As for your c-bet question, in this particular hand you weren't the preflop aggressor, so you can't make c-bet in the first place. However, in general, if you play with 100% c-bet then villains(specially better ones) will give you less credit when you make c-bet and they will check/raise you on boards where you're unlikely to have hit, so you might want to check behind some boards where you can't represent anything or go for a check/raise yourself sometimes when you play OOP or simply go broke with second pair/AK-high against villains who raise your c-bets regularly.

    • raun
      Joined: 15.07.2007 Posts: 746
      to qoute xarry2

      "The influencing factors are always the same when it comes to cbet or checkbehind:

      pro cbet:
      - much foldequity
      - small to medium remaining stack (like 1-2.5x pot)
      - not many remaining outs (which we would have to give up against a checkraise

      pro checkbehind:
      - not much foldequity
      - big remaining stack
      - many remaining outs (and thus implied odds in case we hit)"

      if people are check raising you all the time i think like burek says that maybe you are cbetting too much.

      most often when you end up HU IP as SSSP it is either because you are isoraising or stealing.
      in my experience it is particularly when defending blinds that people love to c/r anything from air to TP. so just leave out the cbet in these situations and maybe fire a delayed cbet instead.

      on the other hand if you isoraise and the board comes 27Qr then that is a perfect situation for a cbet as you have lots of FE.

      edit: i sent you a message.
    • Ishindar
      Joined: 31.12.2008 Posts: 259
      @burek i called preflop to mix my play. an isolation raise would be standard here but I like to vary my play so villans cant easily put me on a hand. this helps generate action for myself when i do have big hands, i think! or am i overthinking this? with A8 im hoping for an A on the flop or to represent something strong if the flop hits my range. i make a c bet 77% of the time, i check raise 21% of the time, this is an ok balance or shoudl i adjust something?
      the flop hits my range hard here so i feel its a good spot to fire one in position.
      thanks for the advise i will go broke with second pair/AK-high against villains who raise your c-bets regularly as you say!

      @raun thanks for the guide, the big remaining stack and less fold equity against a lag mean i should check behind more often in this spot!