This site uses cookies to improve your browsing experience. By continuing to browse the website, you accept such cookies. For more details and to change your settings, see our Cookie Policy and Privacy Policy. Close

[NL2-NL10] NL25... Proper Laydown?

    • THeGaME23
      THeGaME23
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2009 Posts: 398
      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      SB:
      $5.85
      Hero:
      $5.78
      UTG2:
      $39.36
      MP2:
      $13.12

      0.1/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.69 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with T:club: , 8:spade:
      UTG2 calls $0.25, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, 3 folds, SB calls $0.15, Hero checks.

      Flop: ($1.00) 6:club: , 5:spade: , T:diamond: (4 players)
      SB checks, Hero checks, UTG2 checks, MP2 checks.

      Turn: ($1.00) 8:diamond: (4 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $0.60, UTG2 calls $0.60, MP2 raises to $2.00, 2 folds, UTG2 calls $1.40.

      River: ($5.60) 4:heart: (2 players)
      UTG2 checks, MP2 bets $3.75, UTG2 folds, MP2 gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $5.60



      I hit 2 pair, but I didn't like the circumstances (straight possible) and I thought it was very likely that MP2 either hit a set or a straight. But i'm still not sure if this is too tight, is it a proper laydown?
  • 8 replies
    • Ishindar
      Ishindar
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2008 Posts: 259
      with top pair i would fire one on the flop for sure 3/4 pot size. u should as a rule in a multi way pot fire one almost 100% of the time imho and most definitely on this flop.
      a few will fold and at least your chances of being outdrawn are reduced a lot.
      the villans here are really bad, I think your 2 pair had a good chance of standing up if u fired on the flop.

      it might be a good lay down but dont give multi villans free cards to ruin your part like this, make them pay admission :)
    • THeGaME23
      THeGaME23
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2009 Posts: 398
      Originally posted by Ishindar
      with top pair i would fire one on the flop for sure 3/4 pot size. u should as a rule in a multi way pot fire one almost 100% of the time imho and most definitely on this flop.
      a few will fold and at least your chances of being outdrawn are reduced a lot.
      the villans here are really bad, I think your 2 pair had a good chance of standing up if u fired on the flop.

      it might be a good lay down but dont give multi villans free cards to ruin your part like this, make them pay admission :)
      The reason I don't like fire'ing on the flop especially with 2 or more opponents is that they could easily have A10-J10 and I would be dominated. So if I bet and get called I don't know where I stand still, and I wouldn't feel safe fire'ing a second bullet unless i hit 2 pair or trips, and even then I could be beat by a straight or a set. And there are 2 people behind me if I bet the flop and I get raised I have to fold.

      Can you explain why you think I should bet the flop more in depth? Because to me I really do not agree. (Not saying I know more than you most likely opposite lol, just my opinion.)
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      i will bet the flop here.

      you have top pair and backdoor draws to a straight so the hand should be ahead against the limpers. You will most likely get rid of at least 2 of them. You gain the initiative as well and makes the future streets much easier to play.

      Re-evaluate the flop then if you get called.

      In this case, the turn is perfect for us if we bet the flop, i will go broke then.
    • noelga
      noelga
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 7,063
      Hello everybody, I'm from the italian community. :)

      Onsestly I think i should check the flop against 4 opponents with TPNK and a backdoor SD but i think that we can play bet/broke with our top two pairs at the turn.

      We get value from SD, FD and some 8x (maybe a 86 too).
      Just a 97 complete a straight and 88 complete a set we should be scared.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      I just check Flop since you would mostly like to double barrel with the uncertainty that someone will stick around.

      As played, I bet Potsized Turn and shove on a reraise.

      97o and 74o only has a straight now and I don't think 74o is present in one of their ranges. 97o is but since he hits his gutshot , I do not Bet/Fold then.

      - Gerv
    • Ishindar
      Ishindar
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2008 Posts: 259
      Originally posted by THeGaME23
      Originally posted by Ishindar
      with top pair i would fire one on the flop for sure 3/4 pot size. u should as a rule in a multi way pot fire one almost 100% of the time imho and most definitely on this flop.
      a few will fold and at least your chances of being outdrawn are reduced a lot.
      the villans here are really bad, I think your 2 pair had a good chance of standing up if u fired on the flop.

      it might be a good lay down but dont give multi villans free cards to ruin your part like this, make them pay admission :)
      The reason I don't like fire'ing on the flop especially with 2 or more opponents is that they could easily have A10-J10 and I would be dominated. So if I bet and get called I don't know where I stand still, and I wouldn't feel safe fire'ing a second bullet unless i hit 2 pair or trips, and even then I could be beat by a straight or a set. And there are 2 people behind me if I bet the flop and I get raised I have to fold.

      Can you explain why you think I should bet the flop more in depth? Because to me I really do not agree. (Not saying I know more than you most likely opposite lol, just my opinion.)
      my bet the flop line is heavily biased by the donkey villan type u are facing.
      i think u should bet the flop because there is only a 24% max chance one of the villans holds a 10. thats a 76% chance that u have top pair alone :) betting the flop has the advantage of seeing where u are at, early in the hand before u are pot comitted so u can fold easy to a reraise.
      it encourages all worse hands than yours to fold. protects your top pair and makes drawing -ev for the villans.
      checking on the other hand allows 3 villans to draw to a better hand than yours for free potentially.
      if u fear a better hand than yours will just call the flop u can check the turn and re evaluate based on his stats. if hes usually passive and suddenly agressive u fold, if hes passive he will check behind, allowing u to get to the river cheaply at least... i just think this is better balanced play and maybe just suits my agressive style and stat orientated decisions
    • tigerK
      tigerK
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.10.2008 Posts: 4,566
      I do check this flop without even wondering, even if Ishindar reflexion looks fair. Bet the flop is surely not a mistake, but my opinion is that playing turn and river OOP with just TPNK will make us doing mistakes or being outplayed too often. That's why I check, I just think this isn't a safe spot to invest money.

      At the turn you really have to bet. I think nevertheless that your betsizing is weak. As the pot is small, I prefer bet 0.75 (3/4pot).

      The small 3bet of MP2 after the UTG cold call is an obvious sign of strengh. You have just one alternative: push or fold. To make your push ev+ you need between 40% equity and 28% i(f utg2 calls). To make things easier I would say 36% equity so (utg2 will fold very often imho).

      I would have fold too, happy to have made a nice laydown. Here mp2 has a set (rarely the straight because of his range of limp pf) too much often to make this call ev+. I don't see him bluff here, and his line only represent a set to me. If he's not bluffin you're beaten, so, does he bluff or overplay a loosing hand here more than 40% of the time ?
    • THeGaME23
      THeGaME23
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2009 Posts: 398
      Originally posted by Gerv
      I just check Flop since you would mostly like to double barrel with the uncertainty that someone will stick around.

      As played, I bet Potsized Turn and shove on a reraise.

      97o and 74o only has a straight now and I don't think 74o is present in one of their ranges. 97o is but since he hits his gutshot , I do not Bet/Fold then.

      - Gerv
      Thanks Gerv and thanks a lot everyone! I think next time I will still check but bet bigger on the turn and then push if I get re raised. He could have a set but he could also be slow playing aces or kings, or hit a worse 2 pair. I think more than 40% of the time im ahead here.

      Thanks for all the feedback.

      EDIT: Oh and Gerv I just wanted to say that I really liked your NL25 SSS video (there are only a few) Are you planning on doing any more soon? That would be great :) .