why would anyone play FL?

    • mdkpoker83
      mdkpoker83
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.07.2008 Posts: 23
      Hello,

      I have this question on my mind and I'm hoping someone playing this style of hold'em can explain me.

      The main reason I find FL attractive it's because for me it's more fun and challenging then NL, here you can use your math odds, pot odds and some more moves that in NL, at least SSS NL you wouldn't find (also in BSS NL you wouldn't have much to do with draws and other concepts because when someone makes a pot-sized bet it usually leaves you only with implied odds, where except if you are facing weak opponents or you have a really well disguised it's not worth either).

      So for me, FL is the game that I like more, but I cannot figure how can you make money out of it. :)

      Considering the following:
      1. Playing 2-3 h/day 1000 hands per session NL SSS, I think you can make 2.5PTBB/100 hands at the low levels, including additional rake if neccesary. So the actual profit would be 2*2.5 BigBlinds/100 or 50 NL BB / session. Now for NL 10 this would be $5.

      2. In order to achieve this in FL and you are playing still 2-3 h/day I think if 3-4 tabling one can achieve 500 hands in the session. Let's assume the profit is the same 2.5PTBB/100 hands or 12.5PTBB / session. To achieve the same result as SSS NL10 you would need to play at $0.2-$0.4.

      You also have to consider bankroll requirements: in order to play SSS NL10 you'll need $60 and for FL $0.2/$0.4 you'll need $120.

      Assuming, for the ease of discussion that you can keep these profits while you climb the limits, and that I'm targeting something like SSS NL200 the echivalent would be $4-$8 FL (or something similar).

      Now althoug for beating NL200 using SSS it's needed more than just the basic strategies articles, I think it's not so much more to learn or advanced concepts to learn while for FL I think you'll need to do much more study and you'll be facing tougher opponents.

      I didn't played any SH yet, so I cannot compare these styles, although when you move up in limits FR tables are less and less available and I'll have to study those too.

      So my question is, can you make real money from FL playing 2-3 hours/day and no more than 4 tables (cause I don't think you can make good plays with more than 3-4 tables)?
      I love FL, but I'm making easy money at SSS NL, at least at these low levels.

      Thank you FL players,
      Bogdan
  • 12 replies
    • redskwerl
      redskwerl
      Black
      Joined: 03.03.2008 Posts: 3,805
      yes, you can actually make money playing FL... and it's a lot more fun than SSS :)

      btw 2.5ptbb/100 is a completely unrealistic winrate for shortstacking
    • BDL
      BDL
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2008 Posts: 361
      You can make good money at FL at the higher limits once you've become quite an advanced player.

      Play FL for the love of the game. It won't be a good way to make money for a long time.

      I've been a FL player exclusively up until the last month and a half or so where I've tried NL sngs 20$ buy ins and pot limit FR 25 and 50$ buy ins 24 tabling and it is just SOOOO much easier to make money at other variants.

      Sucks but it's the truth.

      That said FL is still my main game.
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      I absolutely love the game. But even at 0.25/0.50 FR it's full of regulars (iPoker). I started the Elephant and joined a table and from 10 people 6 were pure tight-agressive.

      That doesn't mean they are good, but it's not that easy to play with them.

      Anyway, FL vs SNG's, is clear where you make more money..
    • adr0001
      adr0001
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.03.2008 Posts: 271
      A player from my country (he plays with screen-name Rautz at Pokerstars) has made in September $11 700 playing $5-10 and $10-20 SH. But he is very good. He doesn't play if there is no fish at the tables and he makes seat selection (he sits in the left of the fish) and I don't think he plays more than 3-4 tables at the same time. I don't think I will ever be as good as him but if you are a good player FL definitely can be very profitable.
    • RaWRpewpew
      RaWRpewpew
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.08.2009 Posts: 83
      Originally posted by redskwerl
      yes, you can actually make money playing FL... and it's a lot more fun than SSS :)

      btw 2.5ptbb/100 is a completely unrealistic winrate for shortstacking
      5BB / 100h can definately be done on NL10/NL25 with stats, thats my winrate there.
    • adr0001
      adr0001
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.03.2008 Posts: 271
      Originally posted by RaWRpewpew
      5BB / 100h can definately be done on NL10/NL25 with stats, thats my winrate there.
      What sample size do you have? I don't think you can win 5BB/100 short-stacking if you have a large sample size (over 100K hands).
    • redskwerl
      redskwerl
      Black
      Joined: 03.03.2008 Posts: 3,805
      Originally posted by RaWRpewpew
      Originally posted by redskwerl
      yes, you can actually make money playing FL... and it's a lot more fun than SSS :)

      btw 2.5ptbb/100 is a completely unrealistic winrate for shortstacking
      5BB / 100h can definately be done on NL10/NL25 with stats, thats my winrate there.
      i believe that you're running at 5bb/100, but im also 100% sure that's not your expected winrate
    • One12ver
      One12ver
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.05.2008 Posts: 249
      Can you make money playin FL and only 3-4 tables? Yes, I do but you will have to leave all your emotions at the door and accept the fish and their ability to play anything. Play smart and read the board, look for reasons to raise or fold and be prepared for the times you do everthing right and still loose every hand.
    • redskwerl
      redskwerl
      Black
      Joined: 03.03.2008 Posts: 3,805
      Originally posted by One12ver
      be prepared for the months you do everthing right and still loose every hand.
      fyp, lol
    • RaWRpewpew
      RaWRpewpew
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.08.2009 Posts: 83
      Originally posted by redskwerl
      Originally posted by RaWRpewpew
      Originally posted by redskwerl
      yes, you can actually make money playing FL... and it's a lot more fun than SSS :)

      btw 2.5ptbb/100 is a completely unrealistic winrate for shortstacking
      5BB / 100h can definately be done on NL10/NL25 with stats, thats my winrate there.
      i believe that you're running at 5bb/100, but im also 100% sure that's not your expected winrate
      About 85000 hands then i moved back to BSS... more profit :p

      Also...
      I HATE FL.
      /end rant :evil:
    • emotv
      emotv
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.05.2008 Posts: 80
      I am a fixed limit player. It is the eaiset game to make money in micro tables, In multi tabling but you need to study hard.

      Even Short hand which i switch one month ago is also profitable but swings are so bad. But in a long run it is a nice easy guarantee money...
    • cash4mebg
      cash4mebg
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.08.2009 Posts: 613
      I would add, that maybe FL is more a psychological game, than NL. With psychological I don't mean "playing the opponent", I mean being strong enough to accept the bad beats and swings, because that's what keeps fish at the tables, the chance to win something.