[NL20-NL50] QQ vs 3 barrels

    • BogdanDin7
      BogdanDin7
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2008 Posts: 1,114
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.25/$0.5 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Known players:
      BB:
      $101.13
      MP2:
      $34.31
      MP3:
      $50.00
      CO(Hero):
      $50.00
      BU:
      $50.00
      SB:
      $62.49


      Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, Q.
      2 folds, Hero raises to $2.00, 2 folds, BB calls $1.50.

      Flop: ($4.25) 2, T, T (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $2.75, BB raises to $5.50, Hero calls $2.75.

      Turn: ($15.25) 8 (2 players)
      BB bets $7.62, Hero calls $7.62.

      River: ($30.49) 2 (2 players)
      BB bets $15.24, Hero calls $15.24.

      Final Pot: $60.97.

      Fold where ?
  • 23 replies
    • TheRebuz
      TheRebuz
      Platinum
      Joined: 12.10.2008 Posts: 2,078
      reraise flop to 10$ fold if he shoves
    • BogdanDin7
      BogdanDin7
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2008 Posts: 1,114
      Raise for what ? Only hand that is "drawing here" is AK , rest have 2-3 outs if I beat and 2 outs for me if I`m beat . I don`t need to protect against anything .
    • Ardarandir
      Ardarandir
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.10.2006 Posts: 3,216
      Originally posted by BogdanDin7
      Raise for what ? Only hand that is "drawing here" is AK , rest have 2-3 outs if I beat and 2 outs for me if I`m beat . I don`t need to protect against anything .
      this

      reraising the flop here is bad unless you have some history with villain. I think you played it fine.
    • JohnnyChrist
      JohnnyChrist
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.04.2009 Posts: 42
      Fold after his re-raise on flop or peek the turn by raising but since he raised it's probably a good fold.
    • TheRebuz
      TheRebuz
      Platinum
      Joined: 12.10.2008 Posts: 2,078
      .
    • TheRebuz
      TheRebuz
      Platinum
      Joined: 12.10.2008 Posts: 2,078
      Originally posted by BogdanDin7
      Raise for what ? Only hand that is "drawing here" is AK , rest have 2-3 outs if I beat and 2 outs for me if I`m beat . I don`t need to protect against anything .
      invest 4.5$ more to save +18.36$ that u pay him off on turn and river
      if he have Tx or better he will shove and u'll make an easy fold saving 18$, if he have air ur taking that pot down

      tip: Raise doesnt always means protection or value sometimes u got to raise just to see it were u r, couse this is WA/WB situation and with that moves u save ur self $$, and they say that money saved is money earned
    • BogdanDin7
      BogdanDin7
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2008 Posts: 1,114
      Actually raising in wa/wb is the worst option IMO. I`m not investing 4.5$ more to save those 18.36$ . Those 18.36 aren`t lost. He might be betting a PP there , at least turn barrel might still be worst PP , or even some Ax type of hand. If I raise flop I`m losing value from hands like that.
    • TheRebuz
      TheRebuz
      Platinum
      Joined: 12.10.2008 Posts: 2,078
      Originally posted by BogdanDin7
      Actually raising in wa/wb is the worst option IMO. I`m not investing 4.5$ more to save those 18.36$ . Those 18.36 aren`t lost. He might be betting a PP there , at least turn barrel might still be worst PP , or even some Ax type of hand. If I raise flop I`m losing value from hands like that.
      are u serious???
      wow
    • BogdanDin7
      BogdanDin7
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2008 Posts: 1,114
      Well you might be some very good pro player living off poker and stuff like that but this is suppose to be a place people can post hands and talk situations WITHOUT having to face irony and arrogance. I know I never saw a judge or coach talk like that and if that is your attitude I would apreciate if you can ignore my hands and spread your wisdom to everyone else. I have no problem waiting for judges.
    • delete461
      delete461
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.07.2008 Posts: 1,036
      I dont think reraising flop is a good idea - no worse hand is going to pay you off, and better hands are unlikely to fold. A reraise is isolating yourself against better hands. Calling isnt so good either imo, since you are unlikely to improve with another card. I would fold to his reraise on flop.
    • TheRebuz
      TheRebuz
      Platinum
      Joined: 12.10.2008 Posts: 2,078
      Originally posted by BogdanDin7
      Well you might be some very good pro player living off poker and stuff like that but this is suppose to be a place people can post hands and talk situations WITHOUT having to face irony and arrogance. I know I never saw a judge or coach talk like that and if that is your attitude I would apreciate if you can ignore my hands and spread your wisdom to everyone else. I have no problem waiting for judges.
      sorry buddy
      didn mean to ofend u
      tought day at the ofice
    • BogdanDin7
      BogdanDin7
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2008 Posts: 1,114
      Originally posted by delete461
      I dont think reraising flop is a good idea - no worse hand is going to pay you off, and better hands are unlikely to fold. A reraise is isolating yourself against better hands. Calling isnt so good either imo, since you are unlikely to improve with another card. I would fold to his reraise on flop.
      Foldint there is way to weak with overpair imo. You are basically folding everything except Tx then.
    • TheRebuz
      TheRebuz
      Platinum
      Joined: 12.10.2008 Posts: 2,078
      Originally posted by BogdanDin7
      Actually raising in wa/wb is the worst option IMO. I`m not investing 4.5$ more to save those 18.36$ . Those 18.36 aren`t lost. He might be betting a PP there , at least turn barrel might still be worst PP , or even some Ax type of hand. If I raise flop I`m losing value from hands like that.
      turn u pay ~7,5$ and u dont know were u r, river u got to pay 15$ and u dont know were u r either
      he might value beting 77,99,jj thinking he have best hand
      he might blufing or
      he might have Tx or beter so ur puting ur self in caling mode leting him to take controll of the hand he might even outdraw u on river with ak tupe of hand
      i dont like it
    • delete461
      delete461
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.07.2008 Posts: 1,036
      Originally posted by BogdanDin7
      Originally posted by delete461
      I dont think reraising flop is a good idea - no worse hand is going to pay you off, and better hands are unlikely to fold. A reraise is isolating yourself against better hands. Calling isnt so good either imo, since you are unlikely to improve with another card. I would fold to his reraise on flop.
      Foldint there is way to weak with overpair imo. You are basically folding everything except Tx then.
      Yeah its weak but I think you have to fold everything except Tx/TT there, folding overpair to a checkraise is standard at this level, especially on a paired board. If he is thinking enough to c/r bluff that then he isnt the guy you want to play big pots with anyway. As it is you are paying another $25.50 to try and win a pot you have only invested $4.50 into, the pot odds are horrible.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I think calldown is not terrible.
      You can´t fold on the flop, don´t like 3-betting, since you´re mostly isolating against better hands
      I would also call turn and likely river, since you can´t really be sure he isn´t valuebetting there with JJ or bluffing some pp.
    • Hackett77
      Hackett77
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2009 Posts: 372
      Man i really dont get why you suggest calling down this hand.

      If he has a ten you calling 2 more streets and losing a big chunk.

      The only way your getting value here is if he is plure bluffing or thinks he is getting value from a small PP but i dont see anyone other than a major maniac doing either.

      I think you have to raise flop. if you do either

      A) you win pot now
      or
      B) you know your beat and get away cheaply

      If you call down 3 streets then either

      A) your beat and lost a huge chunk of chips
      B) You also giving villain chance to outdraw you with AK or PP

      at the end of the day you only have 1 pair which is likely so stay at just 1 pair. this pot really needs to be won on the flop .

      If you really dont like c/r flop then at least call flop/donkturn/fold to raise
    • BogdanDin7
      BogdanDin7
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2008 Posts: 1,114
      I think call flop / call turn is best line also . He will fire another barrel very often with lover PP because he will put you mostly on overcards. I`m not sure about the call on the river because he will rarely fire again if he doesnt have exactly JJ , maybe even then he would c/c. I think better line would be call flop/call turn - fold to river bet if he checks to me ?
    • Mstlc
      Mstlc
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 4,676
      Originally posted by TheRebuz
      tip: Raise doesnt always means protection or value sometimes u got to raise just to see it were u r
      Raising for information is the single most overrated play in poker EVER. Especially in this spot.

      As a few others have said earlier, 3betting against villains check/raise flushes all worse hands out of his range and isolates you against better hands. On the other hand you can't fold the flop ofc so you bet/call.

      On the turn you ofc call... yet again raising there flushes all worse hands out of his range. But again you cannot fold here cause if villain was bluffing the flop he has to bet here to make his line make any sense.

      On the river you could go for a fold. This depends on villain stats... most people would not barrel the river again with a pocket pair and are mostly gonna turn up with JT, T9, kind of hands. I would have a hard time to fold against his 1/2 pot bet thou cause your hand has to be good 1/4 times to make it 0EV. Against a JJ-TT, 88, JTs, T9s, JTo range you've got 30% equity on the river. But... I actually doubt very much that he'll ever barrel Jacks again at all cause it's hard to get called by worse from his PoV.

      Bet/call - call - fold looks like the best line for this hand imo.
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 939
      id 'say nice hand, i woulden't say re-raise on flop because your isolating yourself against trips//better hands and not giving him a chance to blow it.
      I suggest raising on the turn would be an optimal move because he might see it as a bluff and call with ace high, he could have a flush draw and call a shove, or a straight draw (doubtful but possible).
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