Quiz of the Week: Marginal Made Hands

    • awishformore
      awishformore
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 922
      Hello fellow PokerStrategists!

      Nobody really likes to play marginal made hands when folding them to stay out of trouble is so easy. Avoiding all of them by getting out of the way stops being an option as you climb up the limits in Fixed Limit, though.

      Facing a donk-bet from an aggressive opponent or being called down by a TAG doesn't make it easy on you when holding a marginal hand, but you can't just fold every time.

      You have to adjust to the opponent's player type and try to find the right balance between giving up too often and throwing too much money out the window - what could he be holding, do you have the necessary equity or is it time to give up?

      Another issue that factors in heavily when playing marginal hands is the balance between your lines. If you don't manage to find the right middle ground, your ranges will quickly become polarized and leave the door wide open for exploits.

      Try your best in this week's edition of our quiz:

  • 12 replies
    • Dawnfall26
      Dawnfall26
      Black
      Joined: 30.07.2008 Posts: 3,116
      14/20

      Pretty happy but I think that many plays dont apply on lower stakes.
    • taavi1337
      taavi1337
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.05.2009 Posts: 2,920
      4/20

      I already thought I knew something about FL...
    • enemaze
      enemaze
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 608
      12/20, pretty tough quiz.
    • ukcoolcat
      ukcoolcat
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 167
      14/20 i'm happy!
    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      8/20 - better than I expected to be honest - I will have to stay away from Fl for sure lol
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      You have achieved a total 16 of 20 possible points. This corresponds to 80 %!

      Meh. Didn't recognize the huge BU range at one question and check/called rather tan bet/call (thought he can't bluffraise enough). ;)

      Question 7:

      Titan Limit Hold'em, $30.00/$60.00

      Beide deiner Gegner sind gute TAGs
      (29/22/2.1/43)
      Where's the mistake? :D
    • Berkstajger
      Berkstajger
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.03.2009 Posts: 878
      9/20... :f_confused:

      I'm a bit confused about question Nr. 6:

      Villain is unknown; it's the first time you're involved in a hand with him.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 4 :club: , A :spade: .
      3 folds, Hero raises, BB 3-Bets, Hero calls.

      Flop: (6 SB) 4 :diamond: , 6 :club: , 7 :diamond: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

      Turn: (5 BB) 6 :heart: (2 players)
      Hero bets, BB calls.

      River: (7 BB) 5 :spade: (2 players)
      Hero?


      check/call (0 Points)
      bet/call (2 Points)
      check/fold (0 Points)
      bet/fold (1 Points)



      Your answer check/call (0 Points)



      After just calling on the turn, your opponent will almost always be on an overpair, a pair on the flop or A-high. Against all of these, a bet is better than a check. In fact, he probably won't raise an overpair he has delayed anymore, but he would definitely bet it while he could still call another bet with A-high or his small pairs.

      This of course isn't the best river card, but the FD busted and he could easily level himself into a call because he assumes that your range is polarized between FD and good made hands if you bet again on the river. Against an unknown opponent, you naturally want to see the showdown here, especially since this card is great for a bluff and his range will also be strongly polarized after a raise.


      It is stated that villain is uknown, so we can rule out the advanced medium/high stakes tactics.

      1. Opponents assumes Hero either has a made hand or a busted draw. Since 5 completes a lot of draws, villain will fold all his draws and raise only better hands. Hence I don't understand bet/call line to be the best as the article itself states that we villain won't raise overpairs and Hero is terribly behind against a whole range of overpairs. Therefore there is quite little chance to get called with any kind of unfinished draws, but on the other side we have to call a raise which will most likely come only from better hands?

      2. FD which villain could had didn't complete and since it's already stated that villain will polarize our range between draws and strong made hands, a check would result in a bluff bet and if he has an overpair he will call anyway. We only lose against busted draws that don't bluff.

      So, to draw the line - I'm wagering between bet/fold or check/call and would really like to hear some additional explanation of the bet/call line - against an uknown.
    • Berkstajger
      Berkstajger
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.03.2009 Posts: 878
      P.s. There's also another typo (besides that German text about TAGs... :D ):

      With two overcards, a backdoor flush draw and the possibly best hand a fold is of course out of question, and due to the reasons mentioned before, a raise is more favourable than a raise.


      Roger that, sir, we have to raise a lot! :D
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Originally posted by Berkstajger
      9/20... :f_confused:

      I'm a bit confused about question Nr. 6:

      Villain is unknown; it's the first time you're involved in a hand with him.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 4 :club: , A :spade: .
      3 folds, Hero raises, BB 3-Bets, Hero calls.

      Flop: (6 SB) 4 :diamond: , 6 :club: , 7 :diamond: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

      Turn: (5 BB) 6 :heart: (2 players)
      Hero bets, BB calls.

      River: (7 BB) 5 :spade: (2 players)
      Hero?


      check/call (0 Points)
      bet/call (2 Points)
      check/fold (0 Points)
      bet/fold (1 Points)



      Your answer check/call (0 Points)



      After just calling on the turn, your opponent will almost always be on an overpair, a pair on the flop or A-high. Against all of these, a bet is better than a check. In fact, he probably won't raise an overpair he has delayed anymore, but he would definitely bet it while he could still call another bet with A-high or his small pairs.

      This of course isn't the best river card, but the FD busted and he could easily level himself into a call because he assumes that your range is polarized between FD and good made hands if you bet again on the river. Against an unknown opponent, you naturally want to see the showdown here, especially since this card is great for a bluff and his range will also be strongly polarized after a raise.


      It is stated that villain is uknown, so we can rule out the advanced medium/high stakes tactics.

      1. Opponents assumes Hero either has a made hand or a busted draw. Since 5 completes a lot of draws, villain will fold all his draws and raise only better hands. Hence I don't understand bet/call line to be the best as the article itself states that we villain won't raise overpairs and Hero is terribly behind against a whole range of overpairs. Therefore there is quite little chance to get called with any kind of unfinished draws, but on the other side we have to call a raise which will most likely come only from better hands?

      2. FD which villain could had didn't complete and since it's already stated that villain will polarize our range between draws and strong made hands, a check would result in a bluff bet and if he has an overpair he will call anyway. We only lose against busted draws that don't bluff.

      So, to draw the line - I'm wagering between bet/fold or check/call and would really like to hear some additional explanation of the bet/call line - against an uknown.
      I think you got confused here. BB will almost never hold a draw here. His range is as stated: overpair, a pair on the flop or A-high.

      If we check he may bet pretty thin with a lot better pairs and check behind almost any A-high.
      If we bet he will call almost any better hand and sometimes A-high as well so bet is better than check/call.
      Check/fold may be better but as he is unknown that would be too weak as he may bluff too much.
      Thats the same reason why bet/call is better than bet/fold as he may turn his A-high into a bluff.

      Fell free to ask if this was confusing too. :)

      (I lost 1 point here as well as I don't like bet/call here but the explanation makes sense.)
    • Berkstajger
      Berkstajger
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.03.2009 Posts: 878
      Thank you for the reply, I roughly understand the concept, just my learned logic disagrees. I suppose this is Gold/Platinum/Diamond material which I didn't have a chance to go through yet... :)
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      I managed 13/20 thanks to Mr Equilator, and I think there were 2 other points I think I should have made but didn't... aren't there always? :f_p:

      I had exactly the same thought process on Q6 as Berkstajger... I figured villians range as pairs/overpairs, Ax hands, maybe KQ/KJ. I too went for a bluff induce figuring a solid Ax hand (eg AJ+) may figure they're good, we still lose the same amount to overpairs that bet and possibly save a bet v overpairs where they don't value bet.

      I confess too that I considered there were flush draws in villians range. I guess this is a case of so few combinations of x:diamond: x:diamond: hands in comparison to the rest of the villians range makes this an insignificant portion of their overall range?

      So I too have some mental massaging to do to completely understand this one, because it feels like a pretty solid leak. :f_confused:
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      I confess too that I considered there were flush draws in villians range. I guess this is a case of so few combinations of x:diamond: x:diamond: hands in comparison to the rest of the villians range makes this an insignificant portion of their overall range?
      Yes as he 3-bet all the suited connectors are less likely and out of his strong range only 1/4 has a flushdraw (4 suites ^^).