€ currency on Stars

    • opal99
      opal99
      Black
      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      I've noticed first euro tables on Stars today, so it's no more opened just for private beta testing (it's still only public beta though).


      Here're some info I got (mostly) from 2+2:
      - you have to have account in Euro to play them (so not like on iPoker), which is possible to open (atm) only by taking free seat on euro table
      - max rake is capped at 2€ (other € sites have it ussualy at 3€)
      - you get 7 VPP per 1€ rake so it's more or less equivalent to playing in USD
      - there is 1% transfer fee, so it's better to keep both account with enough money to not exchange every day

      this is part of post by PokerStars' representative:

      [quote]Originally posted by Alex Scott
      1. There will be games in both Euro and US Dollars (Besides the significant demand for such games, Euro games are mandatory anyway due to licences we are acquiring in Europe).

      2. Players will be able to hold balances in both Euro and US Dollars simultaneously, and convert money between those balances whenever they want.

      3. When a player joins a table or tournament which is in Euro, and they don't have a Euro balance, the software will offer to open a Euro balance automatically, and move funds into it for you.

      4. PokerStars will always use the mid-market rate for exchanges, provided by Reuters. We apply a margin (currently set to 0.1%) to this rate. Since this is a controversial point, I should state that this margin is to cover costs and prevent currency speculation, and is not a source of profit. We've chosen this method as we feel it's more transparent than recovering costs through additional rake or unfair exchange rates.

      It's not appropriate for me to comment on other sites' activities, but I would encourage players to compare the cost of our system to those of our competitors in real-life situations before coming to a conclusion.

      5. Rake and VPP schemes for Euro games have yet to be finalised, but will be maintained at a comparable level to USD games. We do NOT intend to charge more rake for players who play in Euro.

      6. Players in Euro games will have the same benefits as those in USD games, including tournament leaderboards, deposit bonuses, etc.[/QUOTE]

      In other words:

      It's nice improvement if your home currency is €, because you can keep the most of your BR in euros and only part, which you regularly play with (let's say 20%), in USD. This way you save a lot on conversions, because you make one only if you run bad and you need more USD to play USD table. You're no more affected by currency fluctuations as much as before and that 1% fee is nothing!

      There's a lot of discussion how/why this 1% fee is so bad, but the fact is:
      - if you withdraw money from Stars to € bank account, you never get mid-rate because bank has to profit somehow too - according to what I noticed, usuall "bank fee" is about 1.9%!

      ^^ this is something you don't notice but it's still better to pay 1% than 1.9.... Sure, there'll be situations when you have to make conversion even though you're not withdrawing, but it's still better way for winning player.

      Just my two cents on this topic...
  • 12 replies
    • opal99
      opal99
      Black
      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      I dont like multiple post, but it'll be easier to read this way:

      According to what Stars' representative implied in mentioned discussion on 2+2, it's not that much of big deal that 1% transaction fee.
      In fact, it's still less expensive for € players (those with account in €) to play $ tables on Stars than on iPoker for example. I won't try to summarize whole discussion here, just will quote one post that explains it a bit, so if you find it interesting, you can browse 2+2 for more info:

      [quote]Originally posted by qucci
      Originally posted by Jukep
      This is a very good point, which I hadn't even thought about.

      It is worth noting however, that the worse exchange rate would actually be beneficial for a winning player. Let's say the true exchange rate is 0.6, so I pay 60 euros when buying in for $100, and cash out 120e after doubling my stack. With the worse rate of 0.63 buying in would cost me 63e, and cash out would be 126e.

      I would still strongly encourage Stars to explore all possible options in order to make the system such that it would be possible to keep all funds permanently in euros and still play in whatever currency. The value of having a euro account really plummets when you have to keep a large part of your cash in USD anyways, and also constantly convert back and forth.
      Lets have a very simple example about the expenses for player.
      One is playing in nl100 usd table. He byus 100 usd to the game. Now lets use those exchange rates u gave.
      Stars would use rate 1USD on 0.6EUR and some other side would use exchange rate 1USD = 0.63EUR. Lets also make clear that in both of the rooms players main account would be in euro. And table is HU. Rake in both room is 5% capped to 3USD

      Now lets assume that every pot he plays is exactly 20$. He plays every pot. His game goes by the rule win win lose win win lose etc. So now his stack would go like 100-109,5-119-109-118,5-128-118-127,5-137-127-136,5-146-136-145,5-155-145-154,5-164-154-163,5-173-163-172,5-182-172-181,5-191-181-190,5-200.
      And he has paid rake 29x0.5 usd = 14.5$
      On stars that is 14.5x0.6=8.7eur and on the othersite that is 14.5x0,63=9.135eur. Now when we add those currency excange cost to that stars the cost of playing will be 8.7+(100x0.6x0.001)+(190x0.6x0.001) = 8.7+0.06+0,114 = 8.874 €
      And on the other site the cost of playing would be 14.5x0,63 = 9.135 €
      So now we see that the player on stars has actually paid 26.1 eurosents less to the site than the player on the site in which he can buy in and cash out with the same exchange rate.[/QUOTE]
      Sure, those used rates are not so much higher/lower, but they have to be, at least, a little bit different than mid-rate (because it would be very unprofitable for rooms to run this € accounts). //or there're other hidden fees

      Conclusion: If you're € player and can use your brain somehow, you can only benefit on this new feature. ;) (as long as € won't fall down and $ rise up :f_biggrin: )
    • OlivierLu
      OlivierLu
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2007 Posts: 5,524
      Is there a chance to affiliate pokerstars with pokerstrategy when opening this new account ?
    • opal99
      opal99
      Black
      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      Originally posted by OlivierLu
      Is there a chance to affiliate pokerstars with pokerstrategy when opening this new account ?
      No, it's not, because it's not brand new account just another account under your current one.
    • dadude77
      dadude77
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.10.2008 Posts: 1,516
      yeah you can instantly just change the currency, I did like 10 bucks just to try it out, was instant change, played some sngs, according to some 2+2 friends the games are extremely soft, i was talking to a friend who was playing NL200 and apparently he was just making bank... there isnt any tracking for them (this was 2 days ago?) but i think fozzy was trying to get it going for HM, dunno about pt3. Cashiers weird with 2 currancys though, im not a huge fan!
    • nafar84
      nafar84
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      Sorry I'm an economics n00b with no clue... so when is a good time to convert to euro? Is the dollar going up anytime soon?
    • opal99
      opal99
      Black
      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      Originally posted by nafar84
      Sorry I'm an economics n00b with no clue... so when is a good time to convert to euro? Is the dollar going up anytime soon?
      well; i dont remember when it went up last time ;)

      The thing is, no one can predict the rate for long period, so if you use € at home, there's no reason to wait imo. If not, then the decision depends more on your expectations about future exchange rates... It's still better to focus on poker..
    • opal99
      opal99
      Black
      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      Originally posted by dadude77
      there isnt any tracking for them (this was 2 days ago?)
      PT3 fully works, except doesnt see difference between $ and € yet...

      TableNinja's bet size work fine, except OR preflop first in.

      dont know anything about HEM
    • Cakara
      Cakara
      Black
      Joined: 10.11.2007 Posts: 139
      Biggest problem for us in euro zone are not currency exchange fees but value of rakeback bonuses which are in usd. In February eur/usd was 1.25 and now it's 1.5 that's 533e difference for 4000$ bonus X(
    • Atoks
      Atoks
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,354
      What do I need to do to change the currency on Stars?
    • opal99
      opal99
      Black
      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      Originally posted by Atoks
      What do I need to do to change the currency on Stars?
      1. find any € table
      2. try to take a seat there - you'll be navigated what to do by PokerStars since now ;)
    • Atoks
      Atoks
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,354
      Originally posted by opal99
      Originally posted by Atoks
      What do I need to do to change the currency on Stars?
      1. find any € table
      2. try to take a seat there - you'll be navigated what to do by PokerStars since now ;)
      Hmm there doesn't seem to be any euro games atm. Been checking for a while now and it's only $. I've been looking for the tables with and without filtering for the euro games.

      EDIT: Scratch that FOUND IT ... just had to look harder :) Thanks for the help!
    • dadude77
      dadude77
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.10.2008 Posts: 1,516
      can also just apply to a Euro Sng.

      ah ok, I personally have HM and it wasn't working, and I'd just caught on 2+2 that no tracking so far! my bad