Trouble with kings

    • erob60
      erob60
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.03.2007 Posts: 165
      The typical situation is thus - starting with KK, you raise and for once get and reraise and then a rotten ace comes on the flop an annoyingly large number of times. A continuation bet tends to get called, while a check is always met with a raise. Since making an unsuccessful continuation bet is extremely costly given the pre-flop action, what is the suggested path to take in such a situation?
  • 7 replies
    • howard182
      howard182
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      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      • 09.07.2007, 00:15
      • This post has been edited 3 time(s), it was last edited by howard182: 09.07.2007 00:16.
      If you are reraised preflop, you're probably getting it in preflop (and if not, why not?), so no problem. I'll assume you meant a different scenario since raising and reraising KK preflop ad infinitum is highly recommendable; the scenario I'll assume is that there was a raise in front of you and you made a sizeable reraise which was called. In or out of position it's still worth making a continuation bet on an A high board as your opponent will often have smaller pairs. You'll see AQ often here, AK more often (ignoring dead cards, just opponents playing this way), but you have two Ks accounted for and one A is on the board reducing the possibilities of these. Even if you're called you may be against a draw and still be ahead, apply your hand reading skills and proceed with caution but you can almost always fold your somewhat devalued pair if you're raised on the flop (although the same can't be said of a donk, they're often weak especially if the bet is small).
    • erob60
      erob60
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      Joined: 08.03.2007 Posts: 165
      Yep - I would continue to raise pre-flop but the situation I refer to involves them merely calling at some point.
    • howard182
      howard182
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      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      "Some point"? This is no limit, and unless one of you is min raising (don't do this!) or you're extremely deep it would be a rare pot where you have KK, it's reraised and the action's back to you and you don't manage to get all in preflop.
    • erob60
      erob60
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      Joined: 08.03.2007 Posts: 165
      Well, it happened 3 times today...which is why I brought it up :/
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
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      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Hi Erob60!

      An ace will come up around 30% of the times on the flop. That means your Kings will face an ace quite often. In these situations most of the time you have to make a continuation bet (depending on the action and the board) because the ace is not only a scare card for you but also for your opponent. So dont become desperate and go on raising your Kings preflop :D

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • Nunki
      Nunki
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      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      At least one ace will flop about 23% of the time (it does seem more like 40% though). Obviously there can't be too much wrong with continuing to raise PF. However when an ace does flop I don't believe it is by any means correct to always conti-bet.

      With an already big pot on the flop simply betting will often fold out all the hands that you beat and only get called by better hands. How you proceed depends much on your opponent/position. There is no easy way to play these situations but simply always conti-betting will often allow an opponent to play his hand correctly.
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      • 09.07.2007, 21:48
      • This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by howard182: 09.07.2007 21:49.
      Depending on how much money is behind, your opponent playing correctly may be a reasonable outcome. KK on an A high board is a reverse implied odds situation in my book, trying to get more money here is likely to backfire.

      Of course, you shouldn't always fire that bet but it's usually right.