Quiz of the Week: Raised Pot with Initiative

    • awishformore
      awishformore
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 922
      Hello fellow PokerStrategists!

      Today's edition of our weekly quiz deals with the first steps our beginners will have to take after the flop. We have raised and are faced with a call - how do you proceed?

      In the early phases of our poker career, we will usually be the one with initiative when we get to the flop. At that stage, pre-flop play is easy and comprehensive, compactly reduced to a simple chart, and we will usually either raise or fold.

      Things turn more complex after the flop, though; your hand transforms from a simple 2-card combination into a post-flop hand taking into account at least 5 cards. The first step in choosing the adequate approach is to classify your hand.

      Once you know your hand's type, you have to put it into relation with the board. Do you need to protect? Do you have the odds to call? Do you need fold equity? How do you perform against the opponent's range?

      It's only after these considerations that you are finally able to pick the correct line or the move with the most profitable expectations. Have you grasped the thought process involved with basic post-flop play yet?

      Find out for yourself in this week's quiz:

  • 10 replies
    • steIIstuI
      steIIstuI
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,587
      You have achieved a total 19 of 21 possible points. This corresponds to 90 %!


      I should switch to NL BSS :D
    • jonnyquest
      jonnyquest
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2009 Posts: 285
      Got 20 out of possible 21. Finally got a respectable score on one of these quizzes. The one I got wrong was I called 22 a weak draw not trash. Heads up even an under pair isn't complete trash. If you have initiative should you Cbet 22 on a K53 rainbow board? I feel like you're ahead of a lot of hands here and a Cbet would only have to induce a fold like 50% of the time to be profitable. I guess this is why I'm still short stacking and stuck at NL25.
    • andyb43
      andyb43
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2008 Posts: 903
      Originally posted by jonnyquest
      Got 20 out of possible 21. Finally got a respectable score on one of these quizzes. The one I got wrong was I called 22 a weak draw not trash. Heads up even an under pair isn't complete trash. If you have initiative should you Cbet 22 on a K53 rainbow board? I feel like you're ahead of a lot of hands here and a Cbet would only have to induce a fold like 50% of the time to be profitable.
      +1
    • awishformore
      awishformore
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 922
      Originally posted by jonnyquest
      Got 20 out of possible 21. Finally got a respectable score on one of these quizzes. The one I got wrong was I called 22 a weak draw not trash. Heads up even an under pair isn't complete trash. If you have initiative should you Cbet 22 on a K53 rainbow board? I feel like you're ahead of a lot of hands here and a Cbet would only have to induce a fold like 50% of the time to be profitable. I guess this is why I'm still short stacking and stuck at NL25.
      Just because you can win the hand with a continuation bet doesn't mean it's not trash. Whenever you can switch your hand with something worth nothing (let's say 72o in that spot) and you would play it the exact same way, isn't your hand trash? Your continuation bet in that context is a bluff, so it has nothing to do with the fact that you might still be ahead - if unknown raises, you have to fold, if he calls, you have to give up.

      Advanced plays like going to showdown with an underpair or firing a 2nd or 3rd barrel don't change the fact that your hand is trash. It only means that a) your opponent has trash that is even worse or b) you keep on bluffing in an attempt to get your opponent to fold.

      Greets, Max.
    • andyb43
      andyb43
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2008 Posts: 903
      Surely a pair is better than no pair and therefore not total trash? And you have position.
    • steIIstuI
      steIIstuI
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,587
      The same answer for me.... tricky question.
    • jonnyquest
      jonnyquest
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2009 Posts: 285
      @awishformore - I see your point. I realize it is a trash hand, but comes in a favourable condition. A bet will take the pot, 22 are often ahead and many better hands are forced to fold. If villain raises it's an easy fold with little lost. I think if I had thought a little deeper about it I would have come up with the same answer.

      Thanks
    • Gabinr1
      Gabinr1
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.04.2009 Posts: 7,755
      There should be a general thread with all NL BSS Quizzes. And to be added every new one - like vhallee has with the "diamond interviews".


      PS: I scored 21 of 21 :s_biggrin:
    • BlackMascot
      BlackMascot
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.11.2009 Posts: 6
      19.5 - first quiz ever.. not bad
    • GrantJennings
      GrantJennings
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.07.2008 Posts: 232
      Originally posted by awishformore

      Just because you can win the hand with a continuation bet doesn't mean it's not trash. Whenever you can switch your hand with something worth nothing (let's say 72o in that spot) and you would play it the exact same way, isn't your hand trash? Your continuation bet in that context is a bluff, so it has nothing to do with the fact that you might still be ahead - if unknown raises, you have to fold, if he calls, you have to give up.

      Advanced plays like going to showdown with an underpair or firing a 2nd or 3rd barrel don't change the fact that your hand is trash. It only means that a) your opponent has trash that is even worse or b) you keep on bluffing in an attempt to get your opponent to fold.

      Greets, Max.
      +1

      22 is a trash hand here. Position and the fact that we were preflop aggressor doesn't change the value of the hand. While you'd be correct to c-bet this flop, you can't call a bet because of your two-outer, or the strength of your pair.

      but I agree with jonnyquest and andyb43, that this is a good spot, if not a good hand.

      I was thinking about question 10, where you have AQ tpgk and have to decide whether to bet the turn. Another reason that a ~15bb bet on the turn is better than potsized is that it keeps us from becoming pot committed while still denying the flushdraw the correct odds to call. If we bet potsized and get called, there will be 63bb in the middle, and our stack will be 69bb. That makes it really hard to get away on the river if villain shoves. If we only bet 15bb, there will be 51bb in the middle, and we'll have 75bb in our stack, which makes a fold to a shove when a scarecard comes that much easier.

      21/21! my first perfect quiz! :s_biggrin: