My poker career ~~

    • undercover82
      undercover82
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 813
      I guess i ll make a start since noone else has done it so far.
      I first played poker online like a little less than 2 years ago i think , on pokerstars along with some of my greek friends from warcraft 3. At first i was playing with play money , then i received some donations :D from my friends and i moved to the uber microlimit tables with 1$ at each table. To top it off , i was playing SH without having any clue that it is actually harder than FR. I was thinking , there are less players here , so i have more of a chance to win a hand. I also was never raising any hands preflop including aces. So it is fair to say i was a total fish. I obviously lost my money soon after , when i decided to make a 50$ deposit. That was soon gone too (thx to tilting if i remember on tables where my bankroll wasnt close to enough , but i had no clue about BRM either)
      and i deposited another 50$ :D which lasted at least a month or so , but again i lost it X( . Then i decided i was not ever going to make any money by playing poker and i totally quit it. I probably lost over 150$ on pokerstars including my 100$ that i deposited and all the donations from my friends.

      So on early december last year i read on a gaming site forum about pokerstrategy giving 50$ for free to everyone to start their poker careers. So i decided to register since i wouldnt risk any more money. The original poster of that thread was proud that he got the 50$ , reached 120$ and then cashed it out , but that seemed dumb to me. I think i am quite lucky i didnt receive a security check because i doubt i would have bothered to do all the steps necessary to prove i deserve the starting money.

      Anyway on the 24th of April i posted this here , which was summing up my progress till then:
      "So yesterday my bankroll for the first time reached the 1000$ mark after 4 months and an insane amount of hands. The first two months i had lots of ups and downs , mainly ups which lasted for like 2-3 weeks and then were destroyed in 1-2 days due to a huge downswing where i would lose 2/3rds or more of my bankroll. Reasons were : I was tilting , i was playing in wrong tables , i thought i learned how to play poker while i was actually sucking , and i was playing SSS way too loose.
      Anyway after the last and worse downswing where i dropped within a week from 500 to 50$ i decided to start over from the beginning , mixing bigstack tables of nl5$ and shortstack of nl10$. So i ve been moving up slowly but surely and i ve learned to take bad beats more lightly , well i get angry of course but it has stopped affecting my play.Right now i play NL25$BSS and NL50$ SSS.
      So i hope that this is the first grand of many to follow :D
      I wanna thank the PS admins , coaches and hand evaluators for helping me to start playing and to be able to stand my ground on the micro limit tables "


      My bankroll has skyrocketed since then as i ve become better and i also started to play on higher limits ( I took a pretty conservative approach on my BRM). While it took me 5 months to reach my first 1K i reached the 2nd in 3 weeks , then the 3rd in 2 more etc. My record was moving up 1K in 3 days , although sadly i havent repeated that :D . I also switched like 1 month ago from FR to SH BSS since there is more action and loose play there. I even made my first meaningful cashout. I havent really had any huge downswings ,just a 2 week break even period and ive managed to stay off tilt after badbeats. For what it's worth , my biggest loss in a session was 800$ (wheeeeee - ok maybe i tilted some there :P ) and my biggest winnings was around 500$. Poker is also becoming more fun for me because i begin to understand it a bit more (Of course theres still a huge way to go).

      Atm i am playing NL200$ SSS up to NL600$ (to be honest its very difficult to find an FR table at NL400$ and NL600$) and NL100$ SH with BSS (more conservative approach here since i ve been playing SH only for a month).
      Hopefully soon i will be able to play NL1000$ with SSS (I am pondering between building a bankroll for that and cashing out to buy some stuff which would delay my progress for about a month or a bit more). Does anyone experienced have any suggestion on how many stacks would be nice to start playing on NL1000$ with SSS?
      I dont think anyone will bother to read all that , after all it is -EV for your play :tongue:
  • 153 replies
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Thanks for the first post, undercover82! :D

      I think it was +EV to read all this because it is nice to see for every member that - although there are many ups and downs in poker - you win big in the long run.

      Concerning your SSS-Stack question: I recommend at least 30 Stacks for NL1000 SSS which means a minimum of $6000 (if I calculated it correctly).

      Please keep going with your reports :)

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      Does anyone experienced have any suggestion on how many stacks would be nice to start playing on NL1000$ with SSS?


      Whilst I'm certainly not qualified to answer your question by direct experience at the tables, I do feel that I have something useful to say.

      It is intuitevly obvious that someone such as yourself who has built up a BR from scratch could also repair any holes you might make in your roll should you lose a few BI's at a higher limit. As you may already know, the "Kelly Criterion" is a concept used by investment managers in order to maximize the growth of investment portfolios whilst at the same time managing risk (ie.losing/depleting the investors initial stake in a manner which is injurious to future growth ). You need to find out how "Kelly" applies in your case. You will have quite a robust BR strategy for your trouble.

      Interesting post BTW.
    • undercover82
      undercover82
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 813
      Thx for the feedback.
      I already have 30+ stacks but as i said i prefer a conservative approach :D especially because i dont really have stats from many players on that limit and that could be a problem , at the beginning at least. I m mostly wondering if i should stick to the 40 stacks rule or if it is better to wait for 50+ on the higher limits.

      Your use of english is a bit too complex nunki but i suppose you mean that this criterion combines the fastest possible bankroll growth without risking loss of my whole stack. I am rather patient with climbing up though because i wanna feel that i am good enough for advancing without getting owned.

      BTW i have noticed that lately i almost always go directly all in after a raise instead of raising the standard 3x. For example if someone raises 4 BB and i have around 20 BB , instead of raising to the standard 12 i go directly all in. The only exception is when there is a minraise i guess.
      I am wondering sometimes whether its the right thing , or if i simplify my play too much and i lose value.
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      BTW i have noticed that lately i almost always go directly all in after a raise instead of raising the standard 3x. For example if someone raises 4 BB and i have around 20 BB , instead of raising to the standard 12 i go directly all in. The only exception is when there is a minraise i guess.


      Me too. I find that some villains are a bit more curious if I go AI directly (NL10). I tend to make a std. re-raise more often on a re-steal.


      Your use of english is a bit too complex nunki but i suppose you mean that this criterion combines the fastest possible bankroll growth without risking loss of my whole stack.


      Yes exactly (although of course there is always a finite chance that you go bust no matter how you manage your BR).

      Eg. You could take 5 stacks and see how you go. If you lose them then you grind them back at a lower level and try again. "Kelly" will suggest an optimal risk-adjusted strategy for BR growth.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Glad to see that you are doing fine. Hoping also someday to reach 1000$, but there is still long way to go (mostly because I´m having all the time downswings:D ). I also wanted to ask some question: how important is pokertracker- I think that it could be very useful example for steeling or open pushes in SSS. I try to reach 2000 PP and hopefully I can get free license next month.
    • degnic
      degnic
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.02.2007 Posts: 3,953
      nice read! :)

      and also big thanks for always giving constructive comments on the sample hands forum, very much appreciated & I've learned a lot from them. :)
    • undercover82
      undercover82
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 813
      So , i ve made my first steps in NL1000 , i cant say it has treated me very well so far :P although some opponents are really really bad. Notable beats include AKs vs QTs preflop all in , KK vs A7o preflop all in , AQo vs Q2s (People dont call that shit even on the lower limits. Same guy called me later with 64o and once again i didnt get paid since i had to avoid contibetting with just overcards vs 2 people). Other than that ive lost the coinflips of AK vs QQ JJ as well. Here is the hand that has scarred me so far (not for life hopefully :D )


      Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)     
      Position:
      Stack
      SB:
      $364.35
      Hero:
      $481
      BU:
      $647
      MP1:
      $715

      5/10 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.7 by www.pokerstrategy.cc.

      Preflop: Hero is CO with K:heart: , K:spade:
      2 folds, MP1 raises to $30.00, 2 folds, Hero raises to $90.00, BU calls $90.00, SB calls $85.00, BB folds, MP1 calls $60.00.

      Flop: ($370.00) 5:diamond: , 9:heart: , 2:spade: (4 players)
      SB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $180, BU calls $180.00, SB raises to $274.35 (All-In), MP1 folds, Hero calls $94.35, BU calls $94.35.

      Turn: ($1193.05) 6:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets $116.65 (All-In), BU calls $116.65.

      River: ($1426.35) A:club:


      Final Pot: $1426.35

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      SB shows [ 9s, Th ] a pair of Nines
      Hero shows [ Kh, Ks ] a pair of Kings
      BU shows [ 8h, 7h ] a straight Five to Nine
      BU wins $233.30 USD with a straight, Five to Nine.
      BU wins $1,190.05 USD with a straight, Five to Nine.


      I had already more than doubled up and waiting to get blinded out , then i get this hand , ofc i cant fold it and i reraise to isolate him , but i get 3 calls , and all hell breaks loose =[. I am thinking i could have just gone all in preflop and run away safely or i should go all in either way on the flop rather than making the HPSB. But anyway , i am not used yet at handling such amounts of $ .


      I dont think ive made too many mistakes yet , there were 2 cases in unraised pot where i acted more aggresive than i should while i didnt have anything /was on a draw and i lost a few extra BB . There was another hand i held T9 on the SB , flop comes 998 , 2 suited , i decided to slowplay with 5 people acting after me and sadly noone bets , then turn comes J and i bet but it was too late , someone got their gutshot with QT =[. I thought i am good since i held the T and it was less possible that someone got a straight but naaa:/ .
      Last hand where i think i might find a fold (but i called) is raising UTG with JJ and getting reraised all in by UTG+1 of 7% PFR. He was no shortstack but still as tight as one. I think they need to fix the SSS guide on that part :P .


      I ll invest a few more stacks into it and if it doesnt get better i ll fall back and grow my bankroll to an even bigger amount before trying again . Although i dont think i am that crippled in skill , rather have had mostly bad luck in situations where i was favorite (After all i am only playing in these tables when i see profitable situations , aka fish opponents)and i hope that this period will end soon :O .


      And about the pokertracker : its a really valuable tool that can help you in many situations as long as you get used to it. Putting your opponent on a hand range depending on his stats is pretty useful.
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Hi Undercover!

      What a bad beat! You played your Kings correctly but sometimes the poker god isn't nice.
      Concerning your T9 hand: Yup, it was a mistake (like it is almost always) to slowplay here ;)

      I like your stories! Please go on! :D

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      Originally posted by Puschkin81
      Concerning your SSS-Stack question: I recommend at least 30 Stacks for NL1000 SSS which means a minimum of $6000 (if I calculated it correctly).
      I would play SSS on higher limits more conservativly then you recommended. I at least would only play NL 1k with 50 Buy-Ins meaning $ 10k.
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      Originally posted by Kaitz20
      I also wanted to ask some question: how important is pokertracker- I think that it could be very useful example for steeling or open pushes in SSS.
      For the SSS under the limit NL $200 you do not net Pockertracker Stats and Poker Ace, because their are so many bad players that you can make 1-2 BB/100 without Stats.
      And even if you use PT and PA you need a huge Database with hundredthousands of hands, because for you as a SSS-Player only the VPIP, ATS, Folding BB is important to know. And for the ATS (Attent to Steal) only an Openraise from the CO or BU counts. So you need a huge sample size to get a number who is near reality.
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      Hi Undercover,

      great to see that you play the SSS on NL $1k I hope I can play their soon for myself.

      For that KK hand, if you know that the other players behind you were pretty loose you might should have reraised preflop a bit more (maybe 4-5 times of the original raise). And yes on the Flop against 3 opponents you eitherway want to go All-In with your Overpair (to eliminate Draws etc.) cause only a hitted Set beats you here.
    • Phisherman
      Phisherman
      Black
      Joined: 06.04.2007 Posts: 75
      yo uc, u dont usually idle on MSN ? i added u some days ago and still didnt catch u online once.. i wanna talk to ya :) (u know me from wc3)
    • samjazzykins
      samjazzykins
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.07.2007 Posts: 7
      Personally, I disagree with the whole concept of SSS (I may be wrong, I may be naive, but hey this is my opinion). Limiting your hands in such a strategy makes you predictable, particularly in higher limit games, better players can read you comfortably.

      I think there's alot of merit in playing hands such as 67 suited, j9 suited, and even tony g's favourite 10-8 offsuit. I just think it makes you more elusive and harder to read. challenge me !
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      If your postflop skills are so good and you have very good reads, then why not raise UTG with T8:) at least nobody puts you on that hand. SSS strategy is based on very good hands and I don´t have to make all-in blufs or big raises to win, also I don´t have to make good laydowns (I´m playing 9 tables and 1-2BB is good enough:) )
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Originally posted by samjazzykins
      Personally, I disagree with the whole concept of SSS (I may be wrong, I may be naive, but hey this is my opinion). Limiting your hands in such a strategy makes you predictable, particularly in higher limit games, better players can read you comfortably.

      I think there's alot of merit in playing hands such as 67 suited, j9 suited, and even tony g's favourite 10-8 offsuit. I just think it makes you more elusive and harder to read. challenge me !
      What do you think why we are teaching you this strategy? Why are some of our SSS players able to play NL5000 and win 1-2BB/100? Because it is successful!

      Oh...and back to our topic: How is it going, undercover?

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      Originally posted by samjazzykins
      Personally, I disagree with the whole concept of SSS (I may be wrong, I may be naive, but hey this is my opinion). Limiting your hands in such a strategy makes you predictable, particularly in higher limit games, better players can read you comfortably.

      I think there's alot of merit in playing hands such as 67 suited, j9 suited, and even tony g's favourite 10-8 offsuit. I just think it makes you more elusive and harder to read. challenge me !
      You clearly don't understand the SSS at all, and possibly don't understand the art of reading.

      A SSS player plays every hand he elects to play the same way. He raises preflop and makes a continuation bet 90% of the time. From early positions he onoly plays premiums and even his steal raises have showdown value, so we can estimate his hand range quite well. But if we're sitting on T8o, that's only going to let us cut our losses as he doesn't have enough money behind. Now maybe you think that we can steal every single pot where he didn't hit from him on the turn, and that might be true for a formulaic tight player (but not any thinking player, and a SSS player has to be one of those too outside of the micro limits), but the short stack is usually committed on the turn or there is no turn. To get the precise reads you need to put money in, and that's what the short stack wants you to do with weak holdings, and by then it doesn't help you against a short stack, you've already paid him.

      And T8o is no winning texas hold'em player's actual favourite hand. That's AA, every time. It is among tony's favourites, but that's because his hand ranking goes AA, KK, a few other premiums, any two cards.
    • undercover82
      undercover82
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 813
      Your main targets with the SSS are not the good players , but the fishes who exist in every limit. Against their loose call range your hand is usually a big favorite. So it doesnt matter very much if you are mostly readable by the good players since you ll still make money by the bad ones.

      Concerning my news i ll just say this : So far ive played 8 big pots with KK and ive won 2. My losses were KK vs AA , KK vs JJ , KK vs 77 , KK vs ATs , KK vs 87s , KK vs A7o. I put my money in when ahead in all of these (except AA ofcourse). Shit.

      At least im still doing good in the lower limits and my bankroll hasnt taken a huge hit.
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      That's bad luck. But it means that you will win with KK more often in the future - statistically! ;)

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • undercover82
      undercover82
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 813
      I am STILL losing money in nl1000 (I have lost pretty much every coinflip and i swear i havent gotten a single set over 3000 hands :P AND KK after the flop has reached 2 out of 10 wins when it got to showdown :D ) but im actually doing pretty good in every limit below that so i am up overall last few days.


      Strangely enough my AA won over 97o :tongue: but i want some feedback on the hand. Very fishy aggresive opponent with 17% PFR raises from MP and everyone folds to me sitting on the SB. Now the question is , against someone who often raises with trash do i go all in and probably only get the 40$ or do i flatcall to gain at least the extra continuation bet, also hoping perhaps for a squeeze from the (good player) BB?




      Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)       
      Position:
      Stack
      MP1:
      $332.75
      Hero:
      $175

      5/10 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.7 by www.pokerstrategy.cc.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A:diamond: , A:club:
      2 folds, MP1 raises to $40.00, 4 folds, Hero calls $35.00, BB folds.

      Flop: ($90.00) 7:heart: , 8:club: , Q:spade: (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP1 bets $50, Hero raises to $135.00 (All-In), MP1 calls $85.00.

      Turn: ($360.00) 8:heart:
      River: ($360.00) T:heart:


      Final Pot: $360.00

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      MP1 shows [ 9d, 7s ] two pairs, Eights and Sevens
      Hero shows [ Ad, Ac ] two pairs, Aces and Eights
      Hero wins $357 USD with two pairs, Aces and Eights.




      Finally the gods of poker have smiled upon me and i performed a HUGE suckout on someone for a change :D . My flop equity was at 4%. I went directly all in preflop because a proper raise would mean that my remaining stack would be half the pot , so i was commited anyway and i wanted to maximize my fold equity.

      5/10 No-Limit Hold'em (10 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.7 by www.pokerstrategy.cc.

      Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with Q:heart: , A:heart: . CO posts a blind of $10.00.
      UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $10.00, Hero raises to $130.00 (All-In), 7 folds, UTG+1 calls $120.00.

      Flop: ($285.00) 4:heart: , 9:diamond: , 5:spade:
      Turn: ($285.00) 2:heart:
      River: ($285.00) T:heart:


      Final Pot: $285.00

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows [ Qh, Ah ] a flush, Ace high
      UTG+1 shows [ 9s, 9h ] three of a kind, Nines
      Hero wins $282 USD with a flush, Ace high.

      And another question. I sit on the BB with KQo. LAG with 16% PFR and 4/5 attempts to steal raises first in from MP3. Everyone else folds. Push or fold?