What's a bad beat?

    • Foxtel
      Foxtel
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.11.2009 Posts: 2
      What did I do wrong in this hand?

      PokerStars Game #35990241569: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) - 2009/11/29 13:48:50 AEST [2009/11/28 21:48:50 ET]
      Table 'Hektor II' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
      Seat 2: Umbi64 ($9.20 in chips)
      Seat 3: Alexei Asano ($5.53 in chips)
      Seat 4: mocs_stripe ($4.26 in chips)
      Seat 5: Foxtel21 ($3.08 in chips)
      Seat 6: markotristan ($3.08 in chips)
      Foxtel21: posts small blind $0.02
      markotristan: posts big blind $0.05
      *** HOLE CARDS ***
      Dealt to Foxtel21 [Qh 9h]
      Umbi64: folds
      Alexei Asano: raises $0.15 to $0.20
      mocs_stripe: folds
      Foxtel21: calls $0.18
      markotristan: folds
      *** FLOP *** [9c Ad Qs]
      Foxtel21: checks
      Alexei Asano: bets $0.35
      Foxtel21: raises $0.70 to $1.05
      Alexei Asano: raises $4.28 to $5.33 and is all-in
      Foxtel21: calls $1.83 and is all-in
      Uncalled bet ($2.45) returned to Alexei Asano
      *** TURN *** [9c Ad Qs] [Ah]
      *** RIVER *** [9c Ad Qs Ah] [4h]
      *** SHOW DOWN ***
      Foxtel21: shows [Qh 9h] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
      Alexei Asano: shows [Kh Ac] (three of a kind, Aces)



      I also did bad in this hand, I am clueless in what I did wrong.

      PokerStars Game #35963146020: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) - 2009/11/29 2:37:32 AEST [2009/11/28 10:37:32 ET]
      Table 'Huenna II' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
      Seat 1: edinsqueak ($6.65 in chips)
      Seat 2: Antmacgoylz ($8.03 in chips)
      Seat 3: Foxtel21 ($7.94 in chips)
      Seat 4: opferlamm11 ($8.74 in chips)
      Seat 5: gabSTEALER ($4.35 in chips)
      Seat 6: hugoboss974 ($2.75 in chips)
      hugoboss974: posts small blind $0.02
      edinsqueak: posts big blind $0.05
      *** HOLE CARDS ***
      Dealt to Foxtel21 [9s 9h]
      Antmacgoylz: calls $0.05
      Foxtel21: raises $0.15 to $0.20
      opferlamm11: folds
      gabSTEALER: folds
      hugoboss974: calls $0.18
      edinsqueak: folds
      Antmacgoylz: calls $0.15
      *** FLOP *** [9d Td Kc]
      hugoboss974: bets $0.20
      Antmacgoylz: folds
      Foxtel21: raises $0.40 to $0.60
      hugoboss974: calls $0.40
      *** TURN *** [9d Td Kc] [2s]
      hugoboss974: bets $0.20
      Foxtel21: raises $1.75 to $1.95
      hugoboss974: calls $1.75 and is all-in
      *** RIVER *** [9d Td Kc 2s] [Jh]
      *** SHOW DOWN ***
      hugoboss974: shows [Ks Qd] (a straight, Nine to King)
      Foxtel21: shows [9s 9h] (three of a kind, Nines)
  • 8 replies
    • GrantJennings
      GrantJennings
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.07.2008 Posts: 232
      The last thing you did wrong was posting the hand history in raw format. first put it through the hand converter here:

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/poker-hand-converter/
      And then it will be pretty, like this:
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.02/$0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)

      Known players:
      MP3:
      $9.20
      CO:
      $5.53
      BU:
      $4.26
      SB(Hero):
      $3.08
      BB:
      $3.08


      Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, 9.
      MP3 folds, CO raises to $0.20, BU folds, Hero calls $0.18, BB folds.

      Flop: ($0.45) 9, A, Q (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $0.35, Hero raises to $1.05, CO raises to $5.33, Hero calls $1.83.

      Turn: ($8.66) A (0 players)
      Hero gets uncalled bet back.

      River: ($8.66) 4 (0 players)
      Hero gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $6.83.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows two pairs, aces and queens(Q 9).
      CO shows three of a kind, aces(K A).

      CO wins with three of a kind, aces(K A).

      That will make us happier to help you, and discuss your hands with you.

      Regarding the way you handled this hand, I have some suggestions.

      Q9s is a good holding, but calling a raise out of position in order to defend your 2c small blind is very borderline, and I wouldn't do it unless you are very confident with your post flop skills.

      If villain is stealing often, you could three bet preflop to about 60-75c and take a flop with initiative. Having initiative and firing a continuation bet on the flop is enough to win a lot of small and medium sized pots. You have a positional disadvantage because you are the SB, and you compounded that disadvantage by taking the flop without initiative and with a marginal holding. By reraising, you have a chance to win the pot now, and you lessen your positional disadvantage postflop by gaining the initiative preflop.

      On the flop, going for a checkraise is way overplayed since you have only middle pair. The A is bad news, as villain could certainly be holding one.

      If he isn't then your checkraise will win you the pot, true. However, your Q would have also won you the pot if he didn't have an A. Also, he can't call the checkraise unless he has an A, so you are only going to be called, or in this case raised all in, by hands that have you crushed (I think you are about a 5-1 underdog on the flop, so your hand is not very healthy).

      As played preflop, I'd play check/call flop, and check/fold turn. With initiative, I'd play bet/fold flop.

      When villain reraises you all in, you can give him credit for an A, and muck your middle pair. You'll get a chance to felt him later in the match!

      Oh, and you should reload your stack to 100bb! Pokerstars has an auto reload feature that you can take advantage of. However, you might like to try the Short Stack Strategy that is taught to members of Pokerstrategy. It's really good, and quite profitable at low limits. Most importantly, you'll learn the value of initiative, position, MONSTER holecards, and Patience Patience Patience!

      Regarding the second hand you posted, that's just a bad beat. I think you played it alright. Sometimes you make the right move and get beat, "that's poker".

      Hope that helps.
    • rudidso
      rudidso
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.07.2009 Posts: 27
      Grant.....probably the best format of constructive criticism i have ever seen.......great feedback.........I might have to post some hands just to hear your veiw......
      Good on ya
    • GunFlavoured
      GunFlavoured
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.10.2008 Posts: 626
      Originally posted by GrantJennings
      On the flop, going for a checkraise is way overplayed since you have only middle pair. The A is bad news, as villain could certainly be holding one.
      He has 2 pair unless I misread something?
    • GrantJennings
      GrantJennings
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.07.2008 Posts: 232
      Much of what I've learned about poker has come from posting my own hands in the discussion forums, and reading threads there. The professional hand judges are excellent, and have helped me climb the limits, weather downswings, and find more profitable ways to handle some tricky spots (nods @ Kaitz).
    • GrantJennings
      GrantJennings
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.07.2008 Posts: 232
      Originally posted by GunFlavoured
      Originally posted by GrantJennings
      On the flop, going for a checkraise is way overplayed since you have only middle pair. The A is bad news, as villain could certainly be holding one.
      He has 2 pair unless I misread something?
      Oh yes, he does.

      I was the one that misread something... even after I put the hand through the hand converter =D.

      Then getting it all in in that spot is a good result! Just a bad beat.
    • Foxtel
      Foxtel
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.11.2009 Posts: 2
      For the first example, I flopped 2 pair and check raised so I could get a read on my opponent. I figured with the ace on the board, he had AK or AQ so I just pushed it because I wanted the pot then and there. Shame another ace came along :(
    • advola
      advola
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.06.2009 Posts: 361
      First hand: the only mistake was calling with Q9s to a 4bb raise
      without of position..
      but On the flop you got lucky flopin two pairs and had the bast hand
      but the other guy had lucky on turn and hit his
      5 outer ( he needed one of this 5 card the two remain Aces
      and the 3 remain Kings - and he hit another A for the win...)


      2nd hand: you got your money with the best hand
      but on flop villain had top pair and str8 draw so you cant blame
      him for sucking out and hitting his 4 outer... (any J)
    • mmanchev
      mmanchev
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.12.2008 Posts: 12
      Hey Foxtel both hands have some bad luck involved and there is nothing you could have done. As the fellas already suggested the mistake in the first hand was calling out of pos with the Q9. However as far as I see you are playing 6 max games in which the opps are much looser than on FR and you will experience many situations like this. Many times they will be pushing with TPTK and sucking you out to the river especially in a case where you have 2 mid and bottom pairs. Also pushing with flush or straight draw or even with gutshots is something you will see a lot and when you are sucked out especially with a gutshot it hurts the most.

      As many books and pro players suggest you should be playing more of an ABC poker on the low limits with a little amount of moves and bluffs. Also 6 max is mainly a positional poker where position really matters. For example you are on the BU holding Q9s and you face a raise from an often stealer on CO. Then you can easily 3Bet and fold to a 4Bet or if he calls of course you will be all in in the spot with 2 pairs. So hands like that you should be more likely to play in position (BU or CO) and definitely not in the SB.

      All in all short term winnings/losses do not matter so all you need to do is playing a solid positional poker and play your best holdings well, the rest will come. GL on the tables ;)