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SSS stealing and other problems on tight tables

    • 01bit
      Joined: 01.05.2009 Posts: 82

      I am playing the Short Stack Strategy on Cake Poker with the starting capital received from Poker Strategy. In 18 days of play i`ve reached almost 18000 hands but if it weren`t for the rakeback and the 100$ bonus that is awarded gradually, by now i would have reached bankruptcy. I currently have around 60$ in my account, but the rakebacks and bonuses received are more than this sum (i actually have lost more than the starting capital of 50$).

      So i`m posting here my stats hopeing that you can help me in in finding and fixing my flaws:

      All-in EV:

      Money won with and without showdown:

      Money won with and without showdown in all positions except the blinds:

      Position stats:

      Overall details:

      Before talking about my problems, i would also like to state that the players on Cake platform are much more tight than the average, so i want you to be aware of this when suggesting methods of improvement.

      Here is a comparison between plrs/flop average on Cake and PokerStars:


      A first problem can be clearly seen when handling the blinds. The graph clearly shows that when not in the blinds, the strategy is productive and my winnings are positive. But overall i lost over 50$, so it is clear that i`m doing something wrong over there.

      Another problem somehow related to the blinds is blind-stealing, an action i don`t make profit of, according to the stats:
      My steal success is 70%, so because i am raising to 4BB when stealing (while in SB), i lose 3.5 BB in 30% of the cases and win 1.5 BB in 70% of the cases. As this breaks totally even, i`ve been suggested that i should decrease my bet in the SB from 4BB to 3BB, in order to minimise my losses when the BB re-raises. This could mean more calls from the BB, because he has to call 2BB to a pot of 4BB, but because the tables on cake are very tight, i hope this would bring more money in than lose.

      One more problem i think i might have is beeing to tight when trying to steal the blinds. According to the stats, i try to steal 16,5% of the time, but i`ve been told this number should be around 25%. So i`m not sure with what range of hands should i try to steal, and, when the BB calls, what texture should the flop be in order to contibet.

      I should also state that because i`m playing on Cake, i have no means of playing with a HUD so i can`t rely on other players` stats when taking decisions.

      I hope that my long post wasn`t too boring and that i will get plenty of on-topic answers.

      Thank you, and good luck!
  • 9 replies
    • kenthmp
      Joined: 19.04.2009 Posts: 485
      I'm interested to see what other people suggests. You should get the attention of the SSS Coach Gerv and see and he has to say bout this.
    • Ishindar
      Joined: 31.12.2008 Posts: 259
      i already gave you feedback in another thread which you ignored
    • 01bit
      Joined: 01.05.2009 Posts: 82
      I didn`t ignored it, instead of answering there, where i wasn`t exactly on-topic, i chose to make another thread where i could post alot more info than those 2 pictures.
    • dandycal
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      Hello 01bit,

      I'm sorry to hear about your downswing. But 18k hands is not quite a big sample to be honest, and judging by your EV line, it seems like you have been somewhat unlucky up to now, but happens quite often in the short-term.

      Regarding stealing and restealing, I think it's quite alright for you to lower your late position raises to 3 bb. Of course you must remember to raise it equally both with stealing hands and with your monster hands. Try also to get a feel for your opponents, make notes if possible, so you know which opponents are more likely to give up their blinds.

      Another thing you should pay attention to is whether you might be limping too much, or calling raises pre-flop. Your vpip is not too much higher than your PFR, but still that could cause you some trouble in the beginning. Whenever you limp in, you'll be playing post flop in a unraised pot with a more marginal hand, and that could lead you to tough spots and -EV moves. I'm not saying this is what is happening to you, but it's worth paying attention to it. Remember that as a basic SSS player you should never call a raise pre-flop, and you should only limp in very specific circumstances (such as completing the SB with a PP after 1+ limper, but on flop: no set, no bet).

      In general my advice to you is keep working on your game. Post hands in the Sample Forums and get the opinion of the judges, evaluate other people's posts also. Re read the articles and just keep on playing, remember that your profit will come in the long run, so don't worry about shor-term results.

      Hope this helps,
    • Zervin311
      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 90
      About the stealing, raising to 3BB on all button and cutoff raises will keep your steals disguised while still keeping them effective enough to steal. You could always take a look at some sklansky pushing charts.
    • harleytopper
      Joined: 28.09.2007 Posts: 680
      Didn't read whole topic, but noticed, that you comapred "players/flop" on cake and pokerstars. As I noticed on pokerstars this value is incorrect. Incorrect or based on very small hand samplesize.
    • TetraQuark
      Joined: 21.05.2008 Posts: 1,521
      He probably wanted to say that there is more tables with higher P/F percentage... Which is absolutely true and one of the main reasons why I moved to PS from iPoker(crap). Cuz it is like... I wanna play poker when I feel like playing it and by that play it profitable. That just is not managable on iPoker, only couple of hours in evening (refering to SSS and cash games).
    • kenthmp
      Joined: 19.04.2009 Posts: 485
      This is my opinion:
      Your edge in playing Basic SSS comes from the SHC. This edge can be big if you're playing against loose fish. Or it very small when playing against tight players, non-existent when playing against other SSS players.

      I can see some remedy for this.

      1. Gain new edges against tight players. I don't know what exactly coz I'm a fish :f_biggrin:

      2. Play against loose players. Move to another site if possible.
    • 01bit
      Joined: 01.05.2009 Posts: 82
      Is it ok under these circumstances to widen my stealing range to something like this? (i only talk about SB and BU, because i always found stealing from the cut-off to be somehow much more risky)

      Top 35%
      AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 88 77 66 55 44 33 22
      AKs AQs AJs ATs A9s A8s A7s A6s A5s A4s A3s A2s
      AKo AQo AJo ATo A9o A8o A7o A6o A5o A4o A3o A2o
      KQs KJs KTs K9s K8s K7s K6s K5s K4s K3s K2s
      KQo KJo KTo K9o K8o K7o K6o K5o
      QJs QTs Q9s Q8s
      QJo QTo
      JTs J9s

      [quote][i]Remember that as a basic SSS player you should never call a raise pre-flop, and you should only limp in very specific circumstances (such as completing the SB with a PP after 1+ limper, but on flop: no set, no bet)[/quote]That is exactly the only time i limp, and even then, i usually look for 2+ limpers, not 1.