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big pp in blinds.

    • henne007
      Joined: 04.05.2007 Posts: 2,143
      i read somewher that it is not allways profitable to raise your big pocket pairs preflop in the blinds.

      the article said its not porfitable if there is no raiser in front of you and you get only callers ( 3 or more)
      the reasons are:

      -if you raise, normally al the callers will call you, and the pot gets bigger.
      but it also gives better pot odds for the following betting rouds to you opponnents. so players with a draw wouldn't make a mistake by calling you bet.

      if you raise preflop out of the blinds and you get a few callers. you are allways out off position
      for example: you get KK in bb, you get 3 callers. you raise and they all call
      the flop is Ac 7c Td. you bet and one player calls. you don't know now if he is drawing to a flush or he has a A. so it is a hard play if the turn is garbage. should you bet to let him pay for his flushdraw or should you check and possible give him a freecard.

      if you just called preflop. and then bet the flop and he calls. if you then check the turn villain . the villain would now normally think that i have a A with a weak kicker. so the chances that he bluffs with a flushdraw are less likely.

      this is a rough transation from a article in dutch that i found on a outher site.
      what do you think of this?
  • 2 replies
    • ciRith
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Hmm I don't believe that the article is right in any way...

      I'm not able to make a correct calculation but you gain much value if you raise Kings vs 3 people preflop and if they call they already made a mistake.
      And if you raised with Kings there is only a chance of... 33% (?) that an ace will come on the flop so 66% of the time you are nearly always ahead and missed a great chance to get money in.
      And if you have Kings and an ace flops and you only limped represinting an ace is -EV too because they fold their lowpairs with nearly no chance to win.
      Btw why should they fear an ace less if you don't raise? Normally hands with an ace is the most raised hand so its the other way around and if he bluffs at you this is a good thing because you can catch them with your Kings.

      I think there are more things which speaks against calling preflop but I don't remember them now. :)

      The easiest things is the best to do and that's a good thing. (Just capping is better than if yopu have to think whether you only call them now or if you raise them)

      Sry for the bad english. :/
    • Pacer357
      Joined: 18.04.2007 Posts: 1,807
      Poker is all about expected value and the more you get in when your expected value is higher then what you put in the pot you make money. If you have aces or kings you almost certainly got the highest EV at the table preflop( unless you have kings and op has got aces). The only time it is incorrect to raise aces is post flop in some but not many situations and thats all about your expected value. Shortly put when you raise with the best hand and the opponent call you gain.

      The same thing goes for draws unless they are really big with 14-15 outs or you have lots of opponents. If you have a flush draw heads up not counting fold equity all bets going in will have negative value for you if your opponent has got a better hand then you. Thats why we raise drawy boards instead of thinking I´m only getting outdrawn anyway. You may give your opponent favorable odds to call but thats only because there is already money in the pot.

      So in conclusion you have to look at it this way when the get a draw they will make money in a big pot but that is not counting the bets that has already went in. If you cap with aces and your opponent calls with 98s you are about a 4:1 favorite so that means if its a 1/2 game he puts $4 in the pot you make $3.20 and if you only call his 3-bet you will only make $2.40. If the board comes 762r you are still a 65% favorite to win the hand so for every $ that goes in you make $0.65. He still got the odds to call and his call will give him a win in the long run but that doesn´t mean that capping 98s is right. The same goes for multiple opponetnts if everybody limps and you got aces on the BB it´s still correct to raise. If UTG raise UTG+1 reraise and all other call on a 10 handed table it´s still correct to cap in the BB you wont win many of these but enough to make a profit if you can handle the postflop play.

      You make money in poker by making your opposition pay when you got the best of it and you loose by paying of to better hands. Drawing hands are all about cutting your losses