Full tilts upcoming actions against Shorties.

  • 102 replies
    • Berkstajger
      Berkstajger
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.03.2009 Posts: 878
      Isn't SSS very hard to play on SH tables? So shorties shouldn't bother you there...?

      I personally have no opinion on the matter, because I love to have shorties around me on the tables. :f_grin:
    • xponentx
      xponentx
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2008 Posts: 341
      As a SSS player, i'm obviously worried about these changes, even though I play on Stars, any change FTP makes is likely to affect Stars significantly, as any SS players are likely to inundate Stars instead, so Stars will have to make similar changes or be overrun.

      Personally, I think SSers are an important part of the game. As a SSS player who also plays BSS, i've noticed that a lot of BS players are too stupid/lazy to bother learning how to beat SS players, and instead just bitch and moan that they're ruining the game. Since I have lots of experience playing SS'ed, I know exactly how to play against them as a BS, and in fact, I make plenty of money from SS's as a BS. So really, I don't see what the problem is. Either you should improve your game to beat the SS players, or you will lose to them, it's that simple.

      If you're a good player either strategy is profitable, if you're a bad player, you'll always find someone else to blame for your shortcomings. I think it's ridiculous for a site to take any extreme measures to get rid of shortstacks, as they're just likely to force people out of the game. To add some more 50BB min tables is no big deal, but if they were to make all tables 50BB min, I think they'd shoot themselves in the foot. Also, increasing the rathole time is likely to have the same effect, the SSers will not be able to put in enough volume, and it won't be profitable enough anymore.

      Personaly, I hope they rethink their decision, as they'd lose a lot of business if the go ahead with anything drastic.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      I can't 16 table on FTP due lags and I even got the Multitable setup (AHK scripts and stuff...)
      I got a Quad Core so that shouldn't be a problem but its so annoying that I just left FTP. Maybe that's their strategy :rolleyes:
    • ThePikey
      ThePikey
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.11.2009 Posts: 24
      @ XponentX.

      I couldn't agree more. Poker is a game of math, percentages and the ability to read your opponents according to their playing style.
      The players who moan and whine about the short stacks are players who doesn't understand the nature of the game. And why reward these players and punish the ones who have a real interest in poker and often spends several hours at the tables every day.

      If they take steps to eliminate short stakes they are going to lose a lot of traffic on their site and thereby a lot of rake. It would be a completely illogical move.

      I can understand if they increase the deepstack tables, to satisfy all the whiners, but this would be the only move I could accept. Anything else wouldn't make sense.

      As you say the losing players will just find a new excuse for why they suck at poker.

      Just my thoughts and I hope that Full Tilt will come to their senses.

      Best regards.
      The Pikey.
    • harleytopper
      harleytopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.09.2007 Posts: 680
      Most of SSSrs on mircrostakes SH tables are just fish.

      But in general in every forum (of course exept PS) most of members hate shortstachers, so I no suprised, that poker rooms will do something about this.
    • Ultifanatic
      Ultifanatic
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.04.2008 Posts: 100
      FTP can go one of two ways with SSS....
      They can add more places where SSS is not profitable, 50 BB min, ante tables, deep stack with large min buy in etc.. while keeping their current 20 BB buy in tables that SSS play at, which would add more variety to thier room allowing for all types of poker to be played. Which would be the wise thing for thier balance sheets...which all in all would be the positive approach.

      OR

      They can take a negative approach and try to limit the ability of SSS players at thier tables by increasing the Rathole time, increase the min buy in at all tables, or some other method. Which would make it so SSS at ftp unbearable or not even availible at all....This would not only make SSS players go somewhere else(lowering the player base), it would also drive fish down limits. Instead of grandma beth logging into a NL50 table with her 10 bucks, she would have to log into a NL20 table with her 10 bucks or even lower. Which the BSS'rs will definetly not like when they have to move down limits to get to the real fish.

      Only the positive approach deals solely with SSS and not lumping short stack fish in with people who know what the are doing grinding SSS all day.

      And lastly, SSS is to take advantage of numbers behind poker. Taking away this strategy will only spawn a different strategy to take advantage of the numbers.

      The next thing they will want it so make it so that super TAG players are not allowed to play becuase they do not know how to beat them either. you have to play a minimum number of hands an hour etc...LOL
    • badpinguin
      badpinguin
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.01.2009 Posts: 245
      Why don't the genius BSS'ers go sit at deep tables? When I played BSS I found it nearly impossible to find full deep tables. Reading this I would expect to only find deep tables.. :f_confused:
    • harleytopper
      harleytopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.09.2007 Posts: 680
      Originally posted by badpinguin
      Why don't the genius BSS'ers go sit at deep tables? When I played BSS I found it nearly impossible to find full deep tables. Reading this I would expect to only find deep tables.. :f_confused:
      Because they want to play with fish, who don't sit at deep stack tables.
    • badpinguin
      badpinguin
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.01.2009 Posts: 245
      Originally posted by harleytopper
      Originally posted by badpinguin
      Why don't the genius BSS'ers go sit at deep tables? When I played BSS I found it nearly impossible to find full deep tables. Reading this I would expect to only find deep tables.. :f_confused:
      Because they want to play with fish, who don't sit at deep stack tables.
      Some people want it all huh. Maybe they should get a drink and a massage too?
    • KidPokersKid
      KidPokersKid
      Global
      Joined: 27.02.2009 Posts: 653
      Originally posted by Ultifanatic
      The next thing they will want it so make it so that super TAG players are not allowed to play becuase they do not know how to beat them either. you have to play a minimum number of hands an hour etc...LOL
      Now your just being a fucking idiot :f_thumbsup:

      All they could just do something as simple as change the min buyin to 25bb(or 30bb) and it would force some strategy change I don't know how far they would want to take it though
    • Ultifanatic
      Ultifanatic
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.04.2008 Posts: 100
      Originally posted by KidPokersKid
      [Now your just being a fucking idiot :f_thumbsup:

      All they could just do something as simple as change the min buyin to 25bb(or 30bb) and it would force some strategy change I don't know how far they would want to take it though
      Of course I am..... :f_biggrin:

      The point is, jsut because some people can't figure out or are too lazy to figure out how to combat SSS does not mean that the poker rooms need to combat it for them.....
    • SheepMoose
      SheepMoose
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2009 Posts: 854
      You guys are retards. FTP aren't going to just ban shortstacks, they're just mearly doing something to prevent shortstacks from flooding the (read: 6max/shorthanded) tables.

      2p2 has found that nearly 70% of the tables at 100NL/600NL had 1 - 3 shortstacks sitting down at FTP's peak hours. 1 shortstack ruins the game on a shorthanded table but anymore and it's ridonkulous.

      I understand that this forum would be unhappy about any changes, but if you've ever sat/railed a NL400 6max table you'll nearly always see 2 shortstacks who do the same thing everytime. Hit and run, rathole, repeat.

      I'm glad to see these changes taking effect.
    • andyb43
      andyb43
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2008 Posts: 903
      Originally posted by SheepMoose
      You guys are retards. .
      You ASKED for opions as a thread statrer and then because they don't agree with you they are retards...........? LOL

      As for my opion on the topic.....many short stackers are not playing SSS they are just playing scared money or who knows what. Let em stay.

      Add me to the retard list.......... :s_biggrin:
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      So nothings been done about FR? It would be nice to see some 50bbmin BI FR tables. Ofcourse keeping the origional 20bb min tables aswell.
    • SheepMoose
      SheepMoose
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2009 Posts: 854
      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      So nothings been done about FR? It would be nice to see some 50bbmin BI FR tables. Ofcourse keeping the origional 20bb min tables aswell.
      I'm sure something will be done for FR, but the ideas originally came from SSS'ers on 6max tables.
    • badpinguin
      badpinguin
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.01.2009 Posts: 245
      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      So nothings been done about FR? It would be nice to see some 50bbmin BI FR tables. Ofcourse keeping the origional 20bb min tables aswell.

      Those exist no?
    • Kruppe
      Kruppe
      Black
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 2,144
      Originally posted by Ultifanatic
      Originally posted by KidPokersKid
      [Now your just being a fucking idiot :f_thumbsup:

      All they could just do something as simple as change the min buyin to 25bb(or 30bb) and it would force some strategy change I don't know how far they would want to take it though
      Of course I am..... :f_biggrin:

      The point is, jsut because some people can't figure out or are too lazy to figure out how to combat SSS does not mean that the poker rooms need to combat it for them.....
      there's no way to combat shorties. it's easy to learn how to play with a short-stack, and due to rake, a bigstack can't have an edge against shortstacks no matter how he adjusts etc.
    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      Originally posted by Kruppe
      Originally posted by Ultifanatic
      Originally posted by KidPokersKid
      [Now your just being a fucking idiot :f_thumbsup:

      All they could just do something as simple as change the min buyin to 25bb(or 30bb) and it would force some strategy change I don't know how far they would want to take it though
      Of course I am..... :f_biggrin:

      The point is, jsut because some people can't figure out or are too lazy to figure out how to combat SSS does not mean that the poker rooms need to combat it for them.....
      there's no way to combat shorties. it's easy to learn how to play with a short-stack, and due to rake, a bigstack can't have an edge against shortstacks no matter how he adjusts etc.

      I don't understand why, Kruppe. If as a short-stacker I can adjust profitably against another shor-stacker, how could it be different for a big-stacker?

      Whether opponents are SS or BS is not that important imo, what really matters is whether they are bad players or not. Any decent player should be able to beat a fish regardless of his stacksize. And as I don't believe the amount of good regulars will ever be superior to the amount of fish, I don't really think we should worry about this, but rather focus on being the sharks and not the fish.
    • RahXephon1
      RahXephon1
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2009 Posts: 972
      If a shortstacker is on the table all the bigstackers loose a little of their equity, since if they want to play profitably against othe BSSer (example call with suited connectors, setmining), they loose money when the shortie pushes all in over them.

      Same thing with playing with fishes in position, if a SSS player is behind, you can't play as loose. Therefore with SSS at the table everyone is forced into playing ABC, so the edge of good players is lower (since they would be able to play a much wider range profitably)

      All this is much worse in 6max I think since in full ring you can't really loosen up more than so much, since it's much more likely someone has a good hand behind you, but for agressive SH players a SSS player on their right is clearly -EV.

      But I'd say, since the rules are like that, there is no point in bitching about SSS, that's the reality of poker like it or not. If they change the rules, those who adapt will survive and others won't.

      Survival of the Fittest as always.