Debate ... Titan Poker ... Fixed ??

    • willfox
      willfox
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2007 Posts: 156
      Hi Guys ..
      I took my winning from party to titan for bonus reasons .. before pokerstratgy offered their Titan bonus.. I had built up over 300BB for .50c/$1 on party ... Just over the last 3 nights I've lost over 60BB so I had to return to .25/.50 its the first time that I've gone backwards so I'm sad :(

      Has anyone else noticed a strange series of hands where the bad beats and obviously bad play (by other players) makes you loose your temper and eventually start laughing a the level of bad luck on Titan ...

      I'll give you a couple of examples :

      Titan Limit Hold'em, $0.25/$0.50BB (Titan HH Converter by Kreatief)


      Preflop: Hero is CO with J:diamond: , J:spade:
      Hero raises, Button calls, 2 folds

      Flop: 5:diamond: , T:club: , 6:spade: ( 2.7BB )
      Hero bets, Button calls,

      Turn: K:diamond: ( 3.7BB )
      Hero bets, Button calls,

      River: 4:diamond: ( 5.7BB )
      Hero bets, Button calls,

      Final Pot: 7.32BB

      I lost obviously and the villian showed 23s

      Titan Limit Hold'em, $0.25/$0.50BB
      (Titan HH Converter by Kreatief)

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q:spade: , A:spade:
      1 folds, UTG+1 calls, 1 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls,

      Flop: 6:heart: , 8:club: , 5:diamond: ( 4.7BB )
      UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, UTG+1 calls,

      Turn: A:diamond: ( 6.7BB )
      UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, CO calls, 2 folds

      River: Q:diamond: ( 8.7BB )
      Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls,

      Final Pot: 12.08BB

      Preflop Agg so called flop.. Hit A on the turn bet in to it and a diamond came river ... Villian shows KJ Diamonds

      Titan Limit Hold'em, $0.25/$0.50BB (Titan HH Converter by Kreatief)

      Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with K:spade: , K:heart:
      UTG calls, 1 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, CO calls, 3 folds, UTG calls,

      Flop: 2:club: , T:heart: , 3:heart: ( 3.7BB )
      UTG checks, Hero bets, CO calls, UTG calls,

      Turn: 4:spade: ( 5.2BB )
      UTG checks, Hero bets, CO raises, UTG calls, Hero calls,

      River: 5:club: ( 11.2BB )
      UTG checks, Hero checks, CO bets, 1 folds, Hero calls,

      Final Pot: 12.54BB

      Now I know the villian is entitled to call here as he hit his ten but he shows A10o

      Titan Limit Hold'em, $0.25/$0.50BB (Titan HH Converter by Kreatief)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with A:heart: , 9:heart:
      2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls, MP3 calls,

      Flop: 2:diamond: , A:spade: , K:spade: ( 3.2BB )
      BB checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, BB calls,

      Turn: 9:spade: ( 4.7BB )
      BB checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, BB calls,

      River: 5:spade: ( 7.7BB )
      BB checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, BB calls,

      Final Pot: 10.18BB

      Villian shows 10 spades 6 clubs second villian shows Q Clubs 6 spades

      Now I have 60BB worth of losing hands my biggest ever downswing ... I will work my bonus off and go back to party...

      Anyone else ??????????

      All the above hands were the last few hands on the same table that I go involved in .. so I don't think tilt was to play ??
  • 10 replies
    • aciddrop
      aciddrop
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2006 Posts: 1,519
      Hi Will.

      I am having a strange time on Titan as well. I am resisting paranoia, though, because I have strange times on whatever site I go to eventually. About 10 minutes ago, I just finished a session on Titan, and on one table I dropped 4 buy ins, SSS NL100, where I was all in as favorite. AK vs AJ, TT vs 99, AK vs AQ and JJ vs 67s. The insane man in my brain wants to start seeing conspiracies after this.

      All in all, I have either got to believe that the system is straight, and play on knowing that the above results are actually winning bets for me, even though it cost me the pot at the time. OR. Give in to believing that the poker sites have bots set up to rip me off, or have a switch which gives me bad results when they want to, or something else equally strange. If I am going to do the latter, it's time to get out.

      I haven't yet played a site which doesn't offer the same results as above sometime, eventually. Really, I can see that the winners of those pots have lost money. And I have made money, which will be returned to me as long as I continue to play +EV poker.

      I actually only ended up losing half a buy in in that session, but I think I am going to be getting some money from there in the future. :D

      And remember this. The next time you play QQ against AA, get all in preflop, turn a Q on the river (I've done this), and feel great because you picked up the pot, you actually lost money, and it will be taken away from you.
    • JackxxRatt
      JackxxRatt
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.07.2007 Posts: 116
      Why would it be "fixed" or "rigged"?. These sites make far too much money on the rake to take any risks fixing things. Bad beats happen, how many bad beats have you inflicted on others, how many times have you sucked out your opponent?. Upswings and downswings can happen anytime. I've just finished a session on paradise, very 1st hand i hit FH and luckily my opponent went all the way with a smaller FH, then went about 5 FR orbits totally card dead followed by AA beaten by ATo and AK beaten by AQ followed by another couple of card dead orbits. It clearly wasnt going to be my night so I offed it and I'll try again tomorrow :)
    • willfox
      willfox
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2007 Posts: 156
      I just find it strange.... Also there are a few people talking at the tables about it being fixed and strange patterns arising ? Perhaps it is Paranoia and bad plays by my opponents hitting lucky cards....
    • undercover82
      undercover82
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 813
      IF there was a possibility that a site was rigged , i think it would be in the highest limits. I dont think big sites though would ever risk doing that.
      BTW i see every now and then on partypoker some accounts logging in a table , copy pasting a message saying that partypoker is rigged etc etc and then they leave immediately to go to another table and so on. I wonder what purpose is behind that.
    • csnmf
      csnmf
      Global
      Joined: 22.11.2006 Posts: 444
      http://www.pokerevsoftware.com/

      An interesting piece of software that is free at least for now as it's in its beta phase. Basically it can show you if you are running good or not, i think it's for NL and not for FL compares your actual winnings with expected winnings or sklansky bucks.

      You need pokertracker though.
    • Gungunhana
      Gungunhana
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.02.2007 Posts: 429
      Hi Will,

      I´ve been playing Titan for 5 months now without any problems, until I made my deposit a month ago to get the PS bonus of 200%. After that hell broke loose and I´m going through the same experience as you reported.
      I can´t post the hands because I dont have a software that works with Titan,but as an example, I lost 6 times in a row with KK against unbelievable hands,and only today I lost AA against 58s(2 pair), AA against T7s ( flush), and the end result is 75 BB lost iin less than a week.
      Maybe it is just a big downswing and I´m trying hard not to go into paranoia so I keep playing, but I´m going to keep an eye on things....just in case :D .

      Correction : It is 750 BB, U$150 on NL20
    • Pacer357
      Pacer357
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2007 Posts: 1,807
      If you stop to think for a while who would loose the most by having a rigged table. The answer is easy the site itself would cause people get tired of being sucked out all of the time. The site does n´t make more money if certain players loose less and some loose more, most of the big losers will stop playing and some of them would be quite descent players. So if those wery good players lost a lot and stop playing the site would loose lots and lots of money cause if they win they will move up in limits and produce a lot more rake. So I can´t in my wildest imagination understand why any sane site owner would risk a rigged table it would be like giving away your profits.

      And come on if you can´t handle a 60BB downswing go to some of the big forums and read about some of the swings of the really good players. Most pro players I think has had a 300 BB downswing but the beautiful thing is you will have sick rushes as well and the feeling of playing a 3 hour session with a 80 w$asd is just awesome.
    • willfox
      willfox
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2007 Posts: 156
      Originally posted by Pacer357
      If you stop to think for a while who would loose the most by having a rigged table.
      Its about rake generation ... If you have a few players believing there hand is the strongest until the river and they suck out. Titan make more rake out of the hand...

      I believe along with other players that Titan is not realistic enough with their randomness of hands...

      I played at a table last night where a player joined with $10 ... 6 hands later he had amassed $110 dollars ... his hands 64o beat KK, 910o beat AA he beat a straight with 72s on the river flush and a few other crazy hands ?? Each hand was raised preflop and he cold called every time ... a joke .. Now perhaps this is bad play by a calling station but still frustrating,

      I played for 3 hours and was up 2BB at the end having seen the flop 13% and won 5% of my flop hands ??
    • Pacer357
      Pacer357
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2007 Posts: 1,807
      Yeah sure rake generation would count in the short run but not in the long run. They make a lot more by having many tables running. Bad players get sick runs as well even on bad starting hands but in the long run they will loose. On the levels a bit higher up most of the players use PT or PO and some players there play a sick amount of hands and they would notice if they get to many pockets and flop to many trips. I have been reading on the forums for 3 maybe 4 years and have seen threads about almost all sites being rigged. There was a big discussion about party on the biggest forum there is and a pro player posted his 3M+ hand statistics and the deviation was minuscule. If you ask any of the coaches or players that have played for a really long time I promise none believes there are rigged sites or else they would n´t play. The site would loose all of there full time grinders and that would only cost them. No site can run on microlimit only with a good result and make money is what all of the poker sites are about. If anybody would start a rigged site I would say he is the worst businessman ever and the biggest idiot out there.
    • JackxxRatt
      JackxxRatt
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.07.2007 Posts: 116
      Although I've never played on Titan which makes it difficult to really comment on that site, there's nothing on this thread I haven't seen before at the sites I have played on.

      Hands like 72s and 64o can win big pots because nobody in their right mind would expect these hands to be played but people will play them and it's something we have to live with. Some players will choose these hands for for the occasional bluff because they're easy to get away from if the opponent obviously hits, others will play them because they're gamblers who'll play any 2 cards. If they hit 4 or 5 hands on the trot then they've got lucky, haven't we all had a spell at some point where we've won 3, 4 or even 5 hands on the trot?.

      As for rake generation, how many times have we been involved in pots where the scare card for 2 or more players lands on the river and the betting suddenly stops?.

      If you really believe these people are bots try chatting to them, observe the higher limit tables where bots would be more profitable, take notes of their usernames and watch them on other tables. If they persistently win on duff cards then you may have a case but my guess is they'll soon start losing just like the rest of us would playing utter rubbish :D