call or fold?

    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      Hi all,

      SNG 5$ on Titan, it is early in the tournament so I do not have much info on the players.
      Here is the situation, Blinds are 30-60:

      SB: 1370
      BB: 5125
      UTG1: 1410
      UTG2: 975
      M1: 600
      M2: 1790
      Hero: 2300
      Button: 1430

      UTG1 Fold, UTG2 Fold, M1 Fold, M2 raise 240, Hero call, BT Fold, SB all in 1370, BB fold, M2 Fold.

      Since SB reraised all in, I think he has JJ+ or AK.
      I have AKo.

      I called it and got 2 A on the flop and won the hand. However I think I made a mistake here.
      Should I have flolded this and keep playing with my still good 2000 chips?

      What u thinks lads?
  • 26 replies
    • zhenzhenZHEN
      zhenzhenZHEN
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      Joined: 26.04.2009 Posts: 190
      raise all in after the mp2 raise xD
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      I'm quiet happy with my call preflop. Here is the reason why: i have position on MP2. If i hit the flop i'm good. If not i'm gonna fold if he bets and bet and more than likely win the pot if he checks.
      The real question IMO is after SB went all in.
      Any views on this?
    • andyb43
      andyb43
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2008 Posts: 903
      Originally posted by zhenzhenZHEN
      raise all in after the mp2 raise xD
      THIS

      Judging by the way you played this hand you're not scared to get your money in so get it in first.

      Your call of the reraise shouldn't be a question because you shouldn't be in that jam.
    • zhenzhenZHEN
      zhenzhenZHEN
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      Joined: 26.04.2009 Posts: 190
      a
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
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      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      I dont see why I should go all in with AKo.
      I think a flat call is good IMO. It is unlikely that someone will reraise after us, so I'm quiet happy to play vs MP2 with position.

      Now if we do the maths: I have to put 1200 to win 1800 which is a 2 to 1.

      If he has TT - JJ or QQ it is 50 -50.
      If he has KK it is 30 - 70
      If he has AA i'm fucked (but would he go all in with AA?)

      So I should call shouldnt I?
    • zhenzhenZHEN
      zhenzhenZHEN
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      Joined: 26.04.2009 Posts: 190
      this is what mp2 calling range is

      88+,AJs+,KQs+,AJo+,KQo+

      equity win tie pots won pots tied
      Hand 0: 55.686% 49.50% 06.19% 823833840 102985752.00 { AKo }
      Hand 1: 44.314% 38.13% 06.19% 634554144 102985752.00 { 88+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }

      we do quite well against that range, and also if he folds then we pick up easy chips
      if he is good then his calling range is basically qq+ and ak, however we cant assume that people ONLY raise with those hands and his calling range is exactly his raising range

      heck he might even fold 88-jj which makes it even better

      equity win tie pots won pots tied
      Hand 0: 60.624% 51.91% 08.71% 608012292 102021744.00 { AKo }
      Hand 1: 39.376% 30.67% 08.71% 359160156 102021744.00 { QQ+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }

      basically u can never go wrong shoving ak unless ofc there was a raise and reraise behind you so u can assume the reraiser range of jj+, ak and so u can fold
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
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      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Risking all your chips eairly in a S&G with AK is not a good move! Theres still alot of play with low blinds. Let others knock them selves out and open up your game as blinds get higher...
    • zhenzhenZHEN
      zhenzhenZHEN
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      Joined: 26.04.2009 Posts: 190
      the thing is in these sngs many many many people will call with dominated kings or aces...hell they even call with qjs
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
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      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Originally posted by zhenzhenZHEN
      the thing is in these sngs many many many people will call with dominated kings or aces...hell they even call with qjs
      Yes but there not you!!! Because everyone else does it means you should aswell? It's simpley not correct, imo its a tard play. Getting all your chips in with like 47% eairly on umm...well to begin you'll win just under half the time...and out of the times you do win how many times are you going to go on and cash?
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
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      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      Agree with you poketacejohn. Thats why i dont like to raise allin with AK. Not early in the tourney anyway. Thats why i flat called after M2.but lets park the first call for a minute. After the SB goes all in should i call? I actually beleive i made a good call since its a 2 to 1 and more tha likwly 50-50. What do you reckon?
    • nathanrenard
      nathanrenard
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      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 816
      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      Risking all your chips eairly in a S&G with AK is not a good move! Theres still alot of play with low blinds. Let others knock them selves out and open up your game as blinds get higher...
      [2]
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      thanks to you all for your views on this.
      Just one more thing. I agree I shouldn't commit all my chips early in a tourney with AK.
      But what should I have done once I called the first raise and got reraised all in by the SB?
      I got 2 to 1 for the money so I guess I did a good call?

      Thanks for your answers.
    • metalDays
      metalDays
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.09.2009 Posts: 97
      I'd definetely fold with AKo should he reraise you.
      Remember one think about AK - it's like Anna Kurnikowa. Appears sexy but practically we just dont know...

      If he's reraising he most likely has a pair, can be 77 but also JJ and hitting an A or K is too much of a risk in the early phase.
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      I wouldnt risk all my chips on the first hand of the tourney With AK, but remember that at that point i had nearly twice more chips than the SB that goes all in. If i lose i still have 1000 xhips left.

      Taking this into consideration and knowing that it is 2 to 1 on a 50-50, i finally think that my call makes sense.
    • HarveyFP
      HarveyFP
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      Joined: 29.10.2009 Posts: 42
      this is what mp2 calling range is 88+,AJs+,KQs+,AJo+,KQo+


      If this is the range, then you need to stack it everytime IMO.

      I do not subscribe to the 'wait for better spot' - as this double up will set you up for a deep run.
    • andyb43
      andyb43
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      Joined: 23.07.2008 Posts: 903
      Me again.............

      You also have to take into account that the villain also doesn't want to go out early either. Whats he thinking you got? Original raises do fold to srong reraise.

      The original raiser did fold to the allin here.
    • GunFlavoured
      GunFlavoured
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      Joined: 19.10.2008 Posts: 626
      I shove AK here everytime. You have great fold equity, only 2 hands you're way behind and at the $5 limit he's probably calling with plenty of hands you dominate.
    • GunFlavoured
      GunFlavoured
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      Joined: 19.10.2008 Posts: 626
      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      Originally posted by zhenzhenZHEN
      the thing is in these sngs many many many people will call with dominated kings or aces...hell they even call with qjs
      Yes but there not you!!! Because everyone else does it means you should aswell? It's simpley not correct, imo its a tard play. Getting all your chips in with like 47% eairly on umm...well to begin you'll win just under half the time
      I think you missread zhenzhenZHEN, he means people will call with AQ- and KQ-. Not really sure where you pulled 47% from?? I think villain's calling range is wide enough that AK is ahead.

      ...and out of the times you do win how many times are you going to go on and cash?
      I'd say a lot more often than if he had not played the hand.
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
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      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Originally posted by GunFlavoured
      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      Originally posted by zhenzhenZHEN
      the thing is in these sngs many many many people will call with dominated kings or aces...hell they even call with qjs
      Yes but there not you!!! Because everyone else does it means you should aswell? It's simpley not correct, imo its a tard play. Getting all your chips in with like 47% eairly on umm...well to begin you'll win just under half the time
      I think you missread zhenzhenZHEN, he means people will call with AQ- and KQ-. Not really sure where you pulled 47% from?? I think villain's calling range is wide enough that AK is ahead.

      ...and out of the times you do win how many times are you going to go on and cash?
      I'd say a lot more often than if he had not played the hand.
      What i mean by that is: you'll lose 1/2 the time and out of the times you win you may go on and cash 65%-70% of the time so if you played it 20 times, you lose 10 win 10, out of the 10 times you win you go on to cash like 6-7, so 33% you play the hand you cash. So going all in here isnt profitable.... To make it profitable you HAVE to finish 1st, say you play a $5+0.50 Finishing 2nd with this play after your 33% cash loses you $3.50. The math has spoken...
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