Loose Agressive Players

    • metalDays
      metalDays
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.09.2009 Posts: 97
      Woke up, opened 2 tables at pokerstars and something wasnt right...
      I practically had 2 tables full of Loose Agressive players, never happened to me before.
      They never folded, always checked-raised and its seemed crazy to me ! They went to showdown with topcards usually and some totally unrational combinations.
      I decided to play really tight as it was impossible to make them fold ( cost me a bundle to learn this) and it seemed like the flop was against me asweel :D .
      Pocket Qs, and the flop comes A A K. I was reaaaally angry.

      How would you deal with with Loose Agressive players ???
      ( in the end I managed to claim back all my losses with insane overbets, but thankgod I logged off then)
  • 7 replies
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Hi MetalDays,

      You probably had the right idea tightening up against the table. There is never any point bluffing players that are incapable of folding. Instead you need to make good value bets and possibly call down a bit lighter. You can also play around the lines you think they will take. If you know they will bet every flop, you can start check raising your strong made hands, or check calling your drawing hands for pot control so you don't get raised off them if you bet out.

      Also keep in mind how many hands have been played. It's possible that some of the players on the table were simply running hot but still playing a tight preflop range. If you can identify the ones playing trash cards those would be the ones you want to isolate your play against.

      By playing tight against loose players, your stack is likely to slowly diminish through losing the blinds and things, but when you do hit a strong hand there is more value in it as you can use your opponents aggressive nature against them.

      Perhaps the easiest solution of them all is.....if you don't like the play, switch tables. Table selection is also part of the game.

      w34z3l
    • metalDays
      metalDays
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.09.2009 Posts: 97
      Yes, at first I thought about switching tables, but since Im playing 0.1/0.2 games and the stakes are minimal, I thought Id challenge myself and see if I could at least gain gain back my losses, which I did and i proved my point. Though I wouldnt play for value against these players next time.
    • Berkstajger
      Berkstajger
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.03.2009 Posts: 878
      Well... you were probably playing against maniacs, not LAGs. LAG is a very difficult style to master so I doubt that kind of players would be playing NL20.

      In FL it's easy calldown with A/K high and valubetting with any made hand. I've run to people capping 95s pf... pure EV+ if they don't start hitting flops.
    • metalDays
      metalDays
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.09.2009 Posts: 97
      Sorry to ask, but whats EV+ ? Hear it often
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      EV stands for expected value, and represents the amount of money you will theoretically make in a situation. In any one given hand however, the amount you win or lose will not be the same as your EV, (except in specific situations) but over an infinite amount of hands it will be.

      Here is an example. Imagine a betting game where you draw any one card. If it is :spade: :heart: :diamond: you win and double up. If it is :club: you lose your bet. Say you bet 1$. You are getting good odds to play this game, because 75% of the time you make 1$ whereas 25% of the time you lose $1.

      EV can be calculated as follows (1$*0.75) - ( 1$*0.25)
      = 0.75$ - 0.25$
      = 0.5$

      (Another way to think about this is to imagine you played the game 4 times. Theoretical probability suggests you will win the game three times and lose it once. 3$-1$ = $2 Since this is over 4 bets ----> 2$/4 = $0.5 won per bet on average)

      So in reality, every time you play this game, you will either make $1 or lose 1$. Theoretically however, every time you play the game you will make 50cents. This is your expected value.
      If you were just to play the game once, and win, you would be running above your expected value. It's the same in poker where you get in with the best hand but your opponent still has outs. In reality you will either win or lose the whole pot, but theoretically the amount you make will depend on your exact equity in the pot.
      Basically, there will be situations in poker where you lose, but it doesn't matter in the long run, so long as your decision had a positive expected value (+EV).

      Hope it helps.

      w34z3l
    • metalDays
      metalDays
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.09.2009 Posts: 97
      Ok wow...

      Thanks for that good explanation. Is that something that is useful to learn to calculate while playing poker ?
      Im just learinng about implied odds etc., and it's complicated enough as it is :D

      Poker and math do nto go well together in my eyes
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      The example given is really a very simplified version of what happens in poker; you won't know your opponents exact hand making it impossible to calculate your exact expected value. What you can do however, is make reliable estimates about your opponent's hand range and your equity against that range. There are also other things to consider such as fold equity. If you bet and there is a chance your opponent may fold, you can factor in additional equity to your EV calculation.

      Doing complex maths mid-hand is both unrealistic and unnecessary. It will be derived from estimates about your opponent in the first place, meaning an exact value cannot be reached. Many successful players will claim they do not use maths, aside from basic pot odds. In truth they are instinctively making estimates regarding their EV without the need for maths. The more you play, the more accurate your estimates involving EV will become.

      The harder maths is best saved for analysing hands afterwards to see if there are any leaks in your game. Pokerstrategy also offers a very useful tool for download called 'equilator'. You can use it work out your equity against your opponent's hand range, and therefore whether you should have stayed in a hand depending on the pot/implied odds you were getting.

      w34z3l