Pokerstrategy strategy...in 10/20???

    • lichoman1
      lichoman1
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.09.2009 Posts: 323
      Hi guys!

      Well, i had been playing poker for a couple of months and now Im playing FL 1/2 shorthanded, things are running well for now in over 70k hands played.

      However, I have noticed that my winrate has dropped down latelly to 1,3BB/100 on this level when in FL 0,5/1 i have a winrate of 2,4BB/100.
      Obviously the players skill level is higher.

      So I wonder..., applying the strategy of Pokerstrategy, are we able to play someday in mids stakes like 10/20???? or do we have to study more strategies in books, other sites, forums....???
  • 21 replies
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      1.3BB/100 is a solid WR over 70k hands - nice work!

      FWIW I think you should learn as much as possible from as many different sources as possible. There are certainly alternative styles recommended at different sites. Have a look around and just keep developing your game.
    • redskwerl
      redskwerl
      Black
      Joined: 03.03.2008 Posts: 3,802
      there's no reason to limit yourself to only learning from PS materials
      and fwiw 1.3/70k hands is a great result
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Hi lichoman1,

      I think we offer everything to make it possible for you to reach the higher limits. But the higher you move the more you need to work on your own as it gets too complex. The platinum articles offer a great option into improving your game but you need to apply these articles on your own.
      Post your own thoughts about a hand and try using Equilator as well: http://www.pokerstrategy.com/software/6/
    • TerrorBlade
      TerrorBlade
      Black
      Joined: 16.10.2007 Posts: 1,922
      Originally posted by ciRith
      I think we offer everything to make it possible for you to reach the higher limits.[/URL]
      If we're talking about FLSH I would tend to disagree unless you can understand the german content.

      To lichoman1, if you've already exhausted the strategy articles @ pokerstrategy and you have a 1.3BB/100 winrate in the long run (how many tables do you play?) then it's gonna be really tough to beat 3/6 & 5/T for anything more than 0.5-1BB/100 if that although it also heavily depends on the site you're playing at too.

      Using my personal experience, I was struggling heavily at 2/4 & 3/6 for a long period of time before I branched out and in a really short time brought my game to the next level.

      I would strongly recommend seeking out as many sources of information as possible, it will broaden your understanding of the game to get many points of view.
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by TerrorBlade
      Originally posted by ciRith
      I think we offer everything to make it possible for you to reach the higher limits.
      If we're talking about FLSH I would tend to disagree unless you can understand the german content.

      To lichoman1, if you've already exhausted the strategy articles @ pokerstrategy and you have a 1.3BB/100 winrate in the long run (how many tables do you play?) then it's gonna be really tough to beat 3/6 & 5/T for anything more than 0.5-1BB/100 if that although it also heavily depends on the site you're playing at too.

      Using my personal experience, I was struggling heavily at 2/4 & 3/6 for a long period of time before I branched out and in a really short time brought my game to the next level.

      I would strongly recommend seeking out as many sources of information as possible, it will broaden your understanding of the game to get many points of view.
      As a short addendum to this, the other advantage of seeking out other sources is that you have a better understanding of what your opponents may be trying to do. Especially playing against the LAGier pre flop, solid post flop players that are clearly studying somewhere other than PS.com.
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Ehm the most important strategy articles are available in english as well.
      To be more exact:

      Basic: 5 Articles
      Bronze: 10 Articles
      Silver: 17 Articles
      Gold: 25 Articles
      Platinum: 16 Articles

      Einsteiger: 5 Artikel
      Bronze: 11 Artikel
      Silber: 17 Artikel
      Gold: 26 Artikel
      Platin: 16 Artikel

      That's 1 article less. The german strategy forum has no additional value. Sure there are more videos and coachings but hey not the most important thing.
    • ukcoolcat
      ukcoolcat
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 167
      Originally posted by TerrorBlade
      Originally posted by ciRith
      I think we offer everything to make it possible for you to reach the higher limits.[/URL]
      If we're talking about FLSH I would tend to disagree unless you can understand the german content.

      To lichoman1, if you've already exhausted the strategy articles @ pokerstrategy and you have a 1.3BB/100 winrate in the long run (how many tables do you play?) then it's gonna be really tough to beat 3/6 & 5/T for anything more than 0.5-1BB/100 if that although it also heavily depends on the site you're playing at too.

      Using my personal experience, I was struggling heavily at 2/4 & 3/6 for a long period of time before I branched out and in a really short time brought my game to the next level.

      I would strongly recommend seeking out as many sources of information as possible, it will broaden your understanding of the game to get many points of view.
      luckily enough i can speak german, their articles are much more detailed and numerous than the english section, but only when you get to higher levels, after earning ps lots of lovely money!

      i acheived gold status before i realised it was something of a con.

      try buying and reading some books, it works out cheaper in the long run. :s_biggrin:
    • NIVEKii
      NIVEKii
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2009 Posts: 1,097
      Originally posted by TerrorBlade
      ...then it's gonna be really tough to beat 3/6 & 5/T for anything more than 0.5-1BB/100 if that although it also heavily depends on the site you're playing at too.
      ...

      Isn't a 0.5-1BB/100 winrate pretty decent on 5/T?
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Originally posted by NIVEKii
      Originally posted by TerrorBlade
      ...then it's gonna be really tough to beat 3/6 & 5/T for anything more than 0.5-1BB/100 if that although it also heavily depends on the site you're playing at too.
      ...

      Isn't a 0.5-1BB/100 winrate pretty decent on 5/T?
      Yes it is nowadays. :/
    • redskwerl
      redskwerl
      Black
      Joined: 03.03.2008 Posts: 3,802
      Originally posted by NIVEKii
      Originally posted by TerrorBlade
      ...then it's gonna be really tough to beat 3/6 & 5/T for anything more than 0.5-1BB/100 if that although it also heavily depends on the site you're playing at too.
      ...

      Isn't a 0.5-1BB/100 winrate pretty decent on 5/T?
      1BB+ is truly exceptional I think, especially on a high-rake site
    • Joshquan
      Joshquan
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2009 Posts: 479
      So at what sort of level do you need to start to seek other sources to boarden your game? I was thinking 2/4?

      Im at .50/1 now at have had few shots at 1/2 and found it tough, although im sure -10BB/100 is not my true winrate there (only 1000 or so :D ). Despite this it lucks not too much of a step up from .50/1 in terms of numbers of looser weak player although i guys the reg/tags will be stronger.
    • TerrorBlade
      TerrorBlade
      Black
      Joined: 16.10.2007 Posts: 1,922
      How many platinum+ vids are there in FL English vs German, this is the most important part - the application of the ideas and principles in a real world setting and actually getting to hear high stakes players' thought processes.

      And what I said about 5/T winrate is extremely optimistic.

      1.3 BB/100 at 1/2 assuming steady improvement via only pokerstrategy english community resources probably equates to breakeven or slightly + at best 5/T, but this is only my opinion and I'd be extremely happy to see some exceptions.

      I know no good, winning FL players who have beaten 3/6, 5/T with higher than 0.5BB/100 winrate (playing HU to escape the rake trap doesn't count) who aren't members at at least 2 other poker forums.

      Also FWIW 1BB/100 at Stars is good but 2BB+ is inside the realms of possibility if you get good enough and i know at least a few players who have done so.
    • Joshquan
      Joshquan
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2009 Posts: 479
      Okay, so im guessing it is against some TOS or something, but would it be possible to give possible other poker forums that would be useful for FL players? I mean I can only see it being +EV for ps.com as it will help there players move up the ranks.

      Are we talking 2+2 here because from my very brief experience (only looking at low limits the standard there does not seem very good? What other sites as this is the only other one im aware of?
    • TerrorBlade
      TerrorBlade
      Black
      Joined: 16.10.2007 Posts: 1,922
      I can't post the links cause they have rakeback affiliates or w/e but yeah 2+2 is a forum with a lot of good FL players that will comment on your hands etc. and there are other sites with excellent videos etc. but again I'm not sure about the legality of posting links etc.

      If it wasn't for those other education sites then PS would have FAR less money from me personally and no doubt many others too.

      I've mentioned them before in my blog Joshquan.
    • Navrark
      Navrark
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.01.2010 Posts: 313

      Isn't a 0.5-1BB/100 winrate pretty decent on 5/T?

      Yes it is nowadays. :/
      I really like FL, even better than NL because I find it to be much less stressful. On the other hand, the win-rate is really low. In $0.01/$0.02 NL I can win more per 100 than $0.02/$0.04 FL.

      What level would a player need to reach in FL to make a living at it? By the sounds of it $10/$20 would earn about $10 an hour at best. That's pretty depressing...

      Nav
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by Navrark

      Isn't a 0.5-1BB/100 winrate pretty decent on 5/T?

      Yes it is nowadays. :/
      I really like FL, even better than NL because I find it to be much less stressful. On the other hand, the win-rate is really low. In $0.01/$0.02 NL I can win more per 100 than $0.02/$0.04 FL.

      What level would a player need to reach in FL to make a living at it? By the sounds of it $10/$20 would earn about $10 an hour at best. That's pretty depressing...

      Nav
      Hey Nav

      Due to the decent levels of rakeback possible playing FL, the winrate isn't the whole picture in terms of what limit provides a decent professional income.

      Plus, a winrate/100 hands isn't an hourly return - you multiply the number of 100x hands you play per hour to get the hourly rate. Add that to rakeback and I'd guess okay incomes are possible at lowish limits (like 5/T).

      To really make a good income though, you need to Yoghi (TM) for a couple of months. (worth a forum search).
    • BDL
      BDL
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2008 Posts: 361
      Any aspiring FL players would, imo, be well advised to take what TB has to say seriously. If, for instance, you compare a strict ps.com player to the more successful players on any given limit above .25/.50 you will find that the ps.com player plays somewhere in the vicinity of 20% too tight preflop.

      As a start, Stox's book and The mathmatics of poker will set you on a better path to actually making some profit.
    • DarthBobo
      DarthBobo
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2007 Posts: 1,134
      Isn't stox range similar to PS?
    • BDL
      BDL
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2008 Posts: 361
      It's quite a bit looser. Also, I'm guessing that a lot of the extra hands played come from isolating bad players or weaktags with a wide range from the button or co. Terrorblade can give a better answer since I'm playing Pot Limit now but you can go to PTR, find a winning player and analyze his stats a bit.
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