Most profitable NL limit?

    • antonio47211
      antonio47211
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      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 129
      Hi,

      This question is quite incorrect in its roots, but still - which NL limit is most profitable? Ofc it is so skill - dependent it almost makes no sense to talk about it, yet if we could measure skill by some virtual "units", then we have to find one where $ / skill unit ratio is most favourable.

      I began think about this while clearing last FTP bonus. With only 8$ in bankroll, I had no choice but NL2, which was like atm for me. But then it was hard to win more $ because we were playing penny games. NL5 looks pretty much the same, today I had one guy to call my allin with Q6o on JJ2 flop (my kings somehow held up). I play moreless very basic poker, quite tight and agressive, and I feel I'm just to lazy and dumb to learn. So I guess I need the highest limit with the least skill.

      Any thoughts?
  • 16 replies
    • nathanrenard
      nathanrenard
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      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 816
      Antonio,

      The feeling of trying to rush through limits it's what makes you a fish at any table. The tables i had most profit on was $1/$2 on Full Tilt Poker. Mostly because i ran twice a lot of pots.

      However, stick to your bankroll rules. It's the only way you'll play on higher limits and be able to operate against the downswings.

      And trust me, they come.
    • saxemephone
      saxemephone
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      Joined: 02.02.2009 Posts: 84
      You can find fish on any limit, but they become more rare on higher limits so I guess the most profitable would be NL Infinity but you would have to wait around a while looking for someone really bad. Also if someone sucks out on you for your whole 100bb stack I guess they legally own you so the variance would literally be killer :P

      Seriously though I don't think you can say there is ONE most profitable limit. It obviously depends on your skill level. If you continue to move up you'll probably eventually find a limit where you just barely win or break even without studying/improving. One limit down from that is most likely your "most profitable" limit.

      Mindlessly grinding without improving doesn't sound like much fun though!
    • antonio47211
      antonio47211
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      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 129
      Guys, it seems you don't get the point.

      There is a certain amount of fish at any limit, starting from "almost everybody" at NL2 to "almost never seen any" at NL100000. The more the fish, the more of easy money to be made.

      But there is a problem. At micros, we only win pennies. But our less than average (I'm not pretending to be a pro) poker skills set is more than enough. So what we have here is 2 curves. First one is our expected winnings - the higher the limit the bigger (a bb at NL100 is worth 50 bbs at NL2, so if we only steal blinds at NL100 we make almost the same if we stack off someone at NL2). Second - our ability to win those winnings, the higher the limit the lower (better and better players, less fish etc). And they intersect at some point, or some limit, at which we still are good enough to win and at which there's enough fish to take money from. So, what limit is this?

      Now, writing all this makes me to believe this limit is different for everyone. This would mean this discussion is only for philosophical reasons.
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
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      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      [x] pointless thread
    • Joronamo
      Joronamo
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      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 649
      Originally posted by nathanrenard
      Antonio,

      The feeling of trying to rush through limits it's what makes you a fish at any table. The tables i had most profit on was $1/$2 on Full Tilt Poker. Mostly because i ran twice a lot of pots.

      However, stick to your bankroll rules. It's the only way you'll play on higher limits and be able to operate against the downswings.

      And trust me, they come.
      How the hell do you run it twice on online poker?
    • Joronamo
      Joronamo
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      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 649
      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      [x] pointless thread
      +1

      Its annoying when beginners have no success and post threads about potential shortcuts through poker that no one may have thought of yet.

      @ thread starter, just grind, I think your forgetting the fact that at higher limits, the players are better too. So if you decide to skip to NL25, you will get flogged from BRM, luck, variance and the sharks that are just waiting to eat people like you.

      Cold honest truth, deal with it. Thats the best advice.
    • SilentSteve
      SilentSteve
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      Joined: 08.11.2009 Posts: 41
      Originally posted by Joronamo

      How the hell do you run it twice on online poker?
      Saw the option to 'always run it twice' on FTP software, but ive never done NL there to know how it works :(
    • HoofdVogel
      HoofdVogel
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      Joined: 11.01.2008 Posts: 3,193
      Originally posted by antonio47211
      This question is quite incorrect in its roots, but still - which NL limit is most profitable?
      definitely NL400SH :P



      is me :s_cool:



      true story*
    • csnmf
      csnmf
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      Joined: 22.11.2006 Posts: 444
      This thread does have merit in theory but in practice it would be very hard to prove and you would have to use parameters and is probably not very useful. It is perfectly plausible for a limit to be higher and yet the skill level is virtually the same thus making it more profitable. For example NL2/NL5 the skill level is probably close to identical so a winning player on NL2 will be 2.5 times more profitable on NL5. There are probably other jumps up the ladder where this occurs. Perhaps most common but in the opposite direction is the jump from NL200 to NL400 is widely regarded as one of the toughest jumps in poker. So there is probably 1 limit in general is considered generally easier whilst factoring in the stakes played to find the most profitable one.

      But this is all theory which is useless every individual player will have their own most profitable limit depending on their skill level. Although a player might be a winner on NL200 and NL400 their most profitable limit might be NL200 or maybe in extreme cases NL100.
    • zulukid
      zulukid
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      Joined: 12.12.2008 Posts: 16
      NL10000
      Steal the blinds then run!!! :f_cool:
    • antonio47211
      antonio47211
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      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 129
      Originally posted by csnmf
      This thread does have merit in theory but in practice it would be very hard to prove and you would have to use parameters and is probably not very useful. It is perfectly plausible for a limit to be higher and yet the skill level is virtually the same thus making it more profitable. For example NL2/NL5 the skill level is probably close to identical so a winning player on NL2 will be 2.5 times more profitable on NL5. There are probably other jumps up the ladder where this occurs. Perhaps most common but in the opposite direction is the jump from NL200 to NL400 is widely regarded as one of the toughest jumps in poker. So there is probably 1 limit in general is considered generally easier whilst factoring in the stakes played to find the most profitable one.

      But this is all theory which is useless every individual player will have their own most profitable limit depending on their skill level. Although a player might be a winner on NL200 and NL400 their most profitable limit might be NL200 or maybe in extreme cases NL100.
      Thanks God at least someone understands what I'm talking about. Thats good news.

      I agree this question is quite theoretical, heavily player / site dependent. Here I think only about micro or low limits, no more than NL100 or even NL50. What you say about NL200 - NL400 jump is very interesting, yet these are a bit out of my reach :) From your (or anyone else's) expierence, how steep are transitions between limits under NL100?
    • ladman
      ladman
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      Joined: 13.04.2009 Posts: 289
      give the guy a break guys I think the kid is asking quite an ingenious question and would like to see results from someone that has a large enough database to see what the answer is.
    • saxemephone
      saxemephone
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      Joined: 02.02.2009 Posts: 84
      From your (or anyone else's) expierence, how steep are transitions between limits under NL100?


      It probably depends on the site. I play NL50 at Everest and found there to be a noticeable difference between NL2 and NL10, but it's still incredibly soft. NL10 -> NL25 wasn't really a big jump, and NL25 -> NL50 took a bit of getting used to but now I realize it's essentially the same but the fish are less common and the regs get a little better, or at least less spewy.
    • antonio47211
      antonio47211
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      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 129
      Thanks saxemephone, anybody else?

      My theory is like this: we learn as we play, and with time we get better and better at current limit. If, at the time we decide to move up we have accumulated more skill than the step, we will find new limit quite acceptable. If not, we might have to move down. We almost never know until we try, yet it is advantageous to have some info from those who did that before. Thats the purpose of this thread.

      As for me, this getting used to new limit thing has to do mostly with bigger bets. I mean a normal 3 - bet pf at NL5 could be somewhere around 0,5 - 0,6$, and that's more than a minstack at NL2! So I have to overcome this "omg how much I have to bet, what if I lose???" thing and get used to new amounts. After that is much easier :)
    • kingdippy2008
      kingdippy2008
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      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 2,107
      In my opinion it depends on your skill level, but as this is progressing all the time then there really should be no "maximum" limit where you make the most profit. For Phil Ivey his most profitable limit is most likely $500/$1000.

      However for a newcomer to poker then there most profitable limit at the time they start playing is going most likely be $0.01/$0.02.

      My theory anyway ;)

      Good luck and best regards,

      -Jack
    • DiegoFueng
      DiegoFueng
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      Joined: 13.10.2008 Posts: 3,667
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