Bubble Abuse

    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      I understand it's situation dependent but could I have some pointers for knowing when to abuse the bubble?

      I think we need:

      1. We are the big stack
      2. There is one short stack (this means the two medium stack players should fear busting out before the shortie)
      3. The medium stack players are not complete idiots (i.e. they won't make really loose calls vs us)
      4. We are not pushing into the short stack (as then we have little FE)

      If this is correct, then should we push ATC? If not, what is the criteria?

      Assume: Hero 6000; V1: 3250; V2 3250; Shortie 1000


      Thanks
  • 8 replies
    • LgWz
      LgWz
      Black
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 7,641
      Generally speaking, you want to push any two cards either when you get insane odds when called (and it doesn't hurt you to lose the pot) or (this one happens a lot more often) you have great fold equity. The four points you talked about are correct, even though we can push ATC sometimes into the small stack, as long as he doesn't call wide enough (some people don't call wide at all when they are the shortest stack, they just blind out waiting people to burst before them).

      There's one different stack setup I like to push very very wide: when blinds are pretty big (but not enough to commit people) and everyone has about the same stack (and they know they can't call wide). Pushing first in in this case makes you the chip leader and gives you a lot of EV in future hands, so it becomes good even if the initial push isn't that great according to ICM. After that you can keep pushing wide because you are now the CL.
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Thanks - very helpful. On a related point, if there is a big stack on your table who you know (or suspect) from previous games is pushing wide as CL to abuse the bubble, what hand stregth do you need to call (if it is for your tourney life - assume you are 1 of the medium stacks).

      Ie, we will always call with AA and KK (and probably with QQ), but what about JJ,TT,AQ,AK,AJ etc?

      Should we just let the big stack continue stealing our chips in the hope the shortie busts (which is what CL wants) or should we take a stand?

      Thanks
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      if the big stack is pushing 80% and blinds are 100/200 then our calling range is JJ+

      If the big stack is pushing 100% our range is TT+

      Tight I know but it is correct

      This is asuming that the big stack is UTG then you then next mid stack then shorty in the BB
    • LgWz
      LgWz
      Black
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 7,641
      It's very very very situational dependent. In some spots calling ranges can vary a lot depending on stack sizes. That's where SNG Wizard shines! But you can't solely rely on it, because ICM has flaws (doesn't account for position as in blinds hitting you, or future situations, etc).
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      You are dead right, my answer was just from the orgianl setup.
      I have seen wiz recomend AJs+ 88+ in some cases but maybe I hadnt adjusted the ranges, I cant remember
    • lessthanthreee
      lessthanthreee
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.06.2009 Posts: 16,300
      dont forget those juicy spots when a SS is all in for < 1bb . you can push ATC against the blinds as a big stack to gain the difference with no showdown needed.
    • z4tz
      z4tz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.05.2008 Posts: 2,043
      Originally posted by lessthanthreee
      dont forget those juicy spots when a SS is all in for < 1bb . you can push ATC against the blinds as a big stack to gain the difference with no showdown needed.
      Remember that the midstacks can call you looser (not loose, but still a bit looser) in this situation though since the only way for them to bust before the shortie is if he wins over both you and the bigstack, which is quite rare considering he got a very wide range.
    • lessthanthreee
      lessthanthreee
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.06.2009 Posts: 16,300
      Originally posted by z4tz
      Originally posted by lessthanthreee
      dont forget those juicy spots when a SS is all in for < 1bb . you can push ATC against the blinds as a big stack to gain the difference with no showdown needed.
      Remember that the midstacks can call you looser (not loose, but still a bit looser) in this situation though since the only way for them to bust before the shortie is if he wins over both you and the bigstack, which is quite rare considering he got a very wide range.
      yes but very few players think of this in game. even those with a semi decent knowledge of the game. and mass multi-tablers often just look at 2 people before them being all in and fold. still +EV with a widish range imo :)