How would YOU play this hand?

    • orcwarhero
      orcwarhero
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2009 Posts: 16
      Originally I wanted to post this as a Poll, but like the "Delete Thread" button I can't find the "Create Poll"...lol

      I will post the same scenario in the NL Strategy section of the Forum (where it belongs), and have it properly analyzed by a PRO, but I just wanted to get a General idea about how people would play this.

      Ok so I just got my $50 startup deposited into my Cake account today and I thought I would try out a little micro game to get a feel for things.

      I had played about an hour, basically playing fairly tight but getting blinded out and/or missing flops a LOT.

      My original $4 buy in had dwindled own to $2.66 but I had seen a LOT of Loose/Crazy play by people betting top pair holding 8/5s or all ins with A/xo or just all out bluffs on the river, so when I finally woke up with KK I was ready to play.

      Ordinarily I am VERY cautious playing ANY pairs less than AA aggressively at micro primarily because I find people will play A/almost ANYTHING to see a flop with an Ace and if I don't hit a set (1 in 10 for me X( ) I'm hooped.

      Now as you can see there are 3 limpers and since I'm button I raise the pot just to take it down pre-flop.

      MP2 calls, but because they didn't preflop raise so I put them on A/2-10 or possibly middle pair (even though calling with the latter is not really following the 20 rule).

      The flop comes with NO Ace but a scary Jack if villain is holding a pair already.
      Villain checks I Cbet (perhaps too aggressively, but I DON'T want an Ace suck out in case villain doesn't have Jacks), and I get check raised All In.

      WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

      CALL OR FOLD

      Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (7 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      saw flop
      MP2 ($4.65)
      CO ($2.65)
      Hero (Button) ($2.66)
      SB ($2)
      BB ($4.59)
      UTG ($2.35)
      MP1 ($3.93)

      Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K
      UTG calls $0.04, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.04, CO calls $0.04, Hero bets $0.26, 3 folds, MP2 calls $0.22, 1 fold

      Flop: ($0.66) 3, J, 2 (2 players)
      MP2 checks, Hero bets $0.66, MP2 raises to $4.39 (All-In)


      I will post the results after Christmas (possibly before if there is no interest in the topic...lol)

      Happy Holidays!! =)
  • 26 replies
    • EdgarAronov
      EdgarAronov
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.07.2009 Posts: 142
      1. why are you not in with max buy in?
      2. this hand he maybe even has a better hand (but i doubt it) but you are ahead most of the times, raise all in and be proud of it

      I think he has pocet 2 or 3
    • andyb43
      andyb43
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2008 Posts: 903
      You shouldn't even have to ask questions like this...........If you fold KK every time someone pushes on a flop like this you are not cut out for poker.
    • KidPokersKid
      KidPokersKid
      Global
      Joined: 27.02.2009 Posts: 653
      I do the Phil Hellmuth insta shove here.
    • dwainbro
      dwainbro
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.03.2009 Posts: 15
      Originally posted by KidPokersKid
      I do the Phil Hellmuth insta shove here.
      hahahaha
    • Illicite
      Illicite
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 6
      My opinion is that he had a Jack with a decent kicker, maybe AJ or K/Q J. I don't think he would have pushed with a set, but instead just smooth call and raise on a later street.
      I would have called.

      Cheers and good luck at the tables.
    • Grailer
      Grailer
      Global
      Joined: 19.11.2009 Posts: 321
      Obviously you called :)

      But you are probably beaten unless you know hes a fish.


      Considering what he could have that u can beat

      QQ

      AJ KJ QJ J10 A5 45 ( is he a fish ? )

      vs what you cant beat ( unles u get lucky )

      AA ( unlikely unless he slow played pre flop )

      JJ 33 22 ( very likely )

      J2 J3 23 ( unlikely )

      or split pot

      KK
    • johnbeattie85
      johnbeattie85
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.09.2008 Posts: 716


      - Way more Jx combos than set's.
      - NL4.
      - Doesn't make sense to fastplay a set here.
      - Even tight players will be stacking off wide since you didn't rebuy.
    • FWKanobi
      FWKanobi
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2009 Posts: 740


      WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

      CALL OR FOLD

      Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (7 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      saw flop
      MP2 ($4.65)
      CO ($2.65)
      Hero (Button) ($2.66)
      SB ($2)
      BB ($4.59)
      UTG ($2.35)
      MP1 ($3.93)

      Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K
      UTG calls $0.04, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.04, CO calls $0.04, Hero bets $0.26, 3 folds, MP2 calls $0.22, 1 fold

      Flop: ($0.66) 3, J, 2 (2 players)
      MP2 checks, Hero bets $0.66, MP2 raises to $4.39 (All-In)
      You have no reads on villain.
      I don't think villain has 22 or 33 because he shoulder be calling such a big raise when you have only much less then 100BB (he don't good implied odds here)

      I think villain's calling range here is AJ+ / 66+ and his push looks like you are way ahead. If he did flopped a monster , he played it bad IMHO (and you too...)

      on the flop , you shouldnt pot bet , you WANT to get a call , you should VALUE bet (around 2/3 pot on this dry board). If villain has a monster , he shouldnt push because you still have fold equity (if he puts you on a weak hand or bluff cbet).

      I have a feeling that villain called you with a crap hand , either suited Jx (maybe he hit pairs on the flop) or even worse , called with Ax (A2,A3) hand or 45 and is on a draw....

      Am I correct ? :D (You called , were happy to see his crap hand and he sucked out on turn or river....)
    • plaukas
      plaukas
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.04.2007 Posts: 205
      Originally posted by FWKanobi

      I have a feeling that villain called you with a crap hand , either suited Jx (maybe he hit pairs on the flop) or even worse , called with Ax (A2,A3) hand or 45 and is on a draw....

      This. I would say he did this with a draw, although even A2/A3 is possible. Set possibilities are way outnumbered by crappy hand combos.
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      NL4, :f_love: , the place where i saw pushing all in for 600BB first in with 85o...

      I play SNG's now but if i were you I would also do the Phil Helmuth insta shove. :]
    • MrPavlos
      MrPavlos
      Global
      Joined: 12.02.2009 Posts: 553
      no offense folks but is it somekind of new trend to show that u dont shove KK?
      Do u think its a smart idea?
      I always can lay down KK on a Axx board,or a QQx board or something similar against someone i know that wont be bluffing at that spot but do u actually fold ur kings that often?

      I mean lately i saw soooo many posts about folding kings or not trusting kings etc...
      What do u shove with????
    • andyb43
      andyb43
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2008 Posts: 903
      Originally posted by MrPavlos
      no offense folks but is it somekind of new trend to show that u dont shove KK?
      Do u think its a smart idea?
      I always can lay down KK on a Axx board,or a QQx board or something similar against someone i know that wont be bluffing at that spot but do u actually fold ur kings that often?

      I mean lately i saw soooo many posts about folding kings or not trusting kings etc...
      What do u shove with????
      EGGSAKERY.....especially at these limits
    • Pokstaz
      Pokstaz
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2009 Posts: 54
      If youre posting here, I think he has 32o and scoops.
    • GunFlavoured
      GunFlavoured
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.10.2008 Posts: 626
      It's NL4! Shove, then ask if you can rebuy mid hand and shove again.


      Originally posted by orcwarhero

      I had played about an hour, basically playing fairly tight but getting blinded out and/or missing flops a LOT.
      While being too loose is usually a leak, being too tight can be as well. You'll only hit the flop around 1/3 of the time and if you're playing too tight you probably won't get much action against decent opponents (Once again don't worry it's NL4). I think you need to post some hands in evaluation section because it sounds like you're losing a lot of value with decent hands.
    • JohnnyChrist
      JohnnyChrist
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.04.2009 Posts: 42
      Easy all in, his shove was probably to scare you off.


      Unless he's leveling. :)
    • Wriggers
      Wriggers
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.07.2009 Posts: 3,250
      Shove all those chips into the middle. With the fish at NL4 his range could be anything from Q high to Top pair, bottom kicker.
    • ClownTackler
      ClownTackler
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2009 Posts: 49
      It's quite simple, he's a fish whatever he had in that hand...

      I can't see what a monster hand or a draw he could hold on the flop without being a fish.

      If he's on a set... then he played pre-flop very badly... if he has aces, even worse.

      So, knowing that he's a fish, i would realize that he could have anything... even a hand like J2 or J3.

      I would push my entire stack... kings are too strong in that hand to lay it down.
    • mishkagg
      mishkagg
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.07.2008 Posts: 1,354
      push/call all-in on flop. you are ahead enough of the time
    • orcwarhero
      orcwarhero
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2009 Posts: 16
      Well it is interesting to see the responses. They mostly seem to follow along my train of thought.

      @
      Originally posted by EdgarAronov
      1. why are you not in with max buy in?
      It was my first foray on Cake and since I saw some crazy stuff going on I didn't want to lose more than I had to on a bad beat. I generally don't use auto-rebuy but I will top up if I lose a chunk on a pot. If the cards run cold for half my stack I usually just leave the table (or in a multi table situation I leave the room).

      @
      Originally posted by FWKanobi

      You have no reads on villain.
      I don't think villain has 22 or 33 because he shoulder be calling such a big raise when you have only much less then 100BB (he don't good implied odds here)

      I think villain's calling range here is AJ+ / 66+ and his push looks like you are way ahead. If he did flopped a monster , he played it bad IMHO (and you too...)

      on the flop , you shouldnt pot bet , you WANT to get a call , you should VALUE bet (around 2/3 pot on this dry board). If villain has a monster , he shouldnt push because you still have fold equity (if he puts you on a weak hand or bluff cbet).

      I have a feeling that villain called you with a crap hand , either suited Jx (maybe he hit pairs on the flop) or even worse , called with Ax (A2,A3) hand or 45 and is on a draw....

      Am I correct ? :D (You called , were happy to see his crap hand and he sucked out on turn or river....)
      Your thought process is the same as mine. He didn't re raise preflop so IMO he wasn't slowplaying AA. Just to re clarify, the reason I bet the pot was to prevent a suckout. I would rather win a little than lose a lot, as as I mentioned, people were playing A/anything so the bet was to discourage the draw. I'll post the results for you after Christmas ;)

      @
      Originally posted by MrPavlos
      no offense folks but is it somekind of new trend to show that u dont shove KK?
      Do u think its a smart idea?
      I always can lay down KK on a Axx board,or a QQx board or something similar against someone i know that wont be bluffing at that spot but do u actually fold ur kings that often?

      I mean lately i saw soooo many posts about folding kings or not trusting kings etc...
      What do u shove with????
      I will shove WITHOUT hesitation AA or KK preflop, however at micro limits I find people JUST DON'T CARE about $2-$4 so if I get a LOT of resistance on a Cbet with a dry board my thoughts immediately go to sets. I have laid down both AA and KK in the past, I have shoved and won with both and I have lost with both. I find at micro a LOT of luck is involved. It seems like everyone is a tourney player...lol.

      @
      Originally posted by GunFlavoured

      While being too loose is usually a leak, being too tight can be as well. You'll only hit the flop around 1/3 of the time and if you're playing too tight you probably won't get much action against decent opponents (Once again don't worry it's NL4). I think you need to post some hands in evaluation section because it sounds like you're losing a lot of value with decent hands.
      Well I was playing tight passive however I did play at some pots (hence being stuck $1.34). As mentioned the opponents were QUITE loose so I don't even think they noticed my absence on the hands I didn't play...lol

      Anyway glad the thread is of some interest. I will post it in the Hand Evaluation Forum where it belongs, but feel free to continue discussing.

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/forum/board.php?boardid=1387


      As mentioned I will post the Final results after Christmas for those of you DYING to know...hehe (as if you really care...lol)
    • 1
    • 2