30% ROI in my old level, negative ROI in my new one

    • kubernetes
      kubernetes
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2008 Posts: 34
      Hi.

      I play the turbo 6-max SnG on pokerstars. At my previous level, $3.25, I had a roi of 30% in roughly 700 games. I recently moved up to the $6.5 and I am having a negative roi over 100 games or so.

      Numbers aside, I am finding much more difficult the games in this new level. Players are much more aggro, forcing me to play a higher variance style. I was aiming to build a roll as quick as possible, that's why I moved up, but as things seem to deveolp, maybe I should stick to the $3.25.

      Thoughts, ideas, suggestions?
  • 36 replies
    • HannesNL
      HannesNL
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.11.2008 Posts: 4,590
      study, improve, study, improve, study, improve
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      I don't think you're actually a losing player at the new level. My roi is like 12% and i moved to Party with a part of my bankroll where i had a roi of -40%!!! for around 50 games or so.

      So of course try to improve and make a bigger sample size.

      PS: Can you really have such a big ROI on 6max turbos? wow.
    • AugustusCaesar
      AugustusCaesar
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.05.2008 Posts: 377
      Originally posted by kubernetes
      Hi.

      I play the turbo 6-max SnG on pokerstars. At my previous level, $3.25, I had a roi of 30% in roughly 700 games. I recently moved up to the $6.5 and I am having a negative roi over 100 games or so.

      Numbers aside, I am finding much more difficult the games in this new level. Players are much more aggro, forcing me to play a higher variance style. I was aiming to build a roll as quick as possible, that's why I moved up, but as things seem to deveolp, maybe I should stick to the $3.25.

      Thoughts, ideas, suggestions?
      Small sample size on the 3$ , and over 100 SnGs is nothing sir .. Play at least like 1k SnGs and then maybe start making conclusions .. Just be patient, try to work on your ICM and maybe put in more volume by adding tables
    • kubernetes
      kubernetes
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2008 Posts: 34
      Originally posted by andreibalint

      PS: Can you really have such a big ROI on 6max turbos? wow.
      Yeah, that is the point. I managed to be a winning player at this level basically by playing a tight smalball game. Namely, when the binds got high, I didn't switch immediately to push/fold mode, since with smaller bets where usually enough to end up winning a lot o games. However, this isn't possible any longer at the 6.5. There are lots of restealing and the game conditions force me to switch to longball poker (push/fold) earlier than I would like.
    • Alverine
      Alverine
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 1,938
      I went to the same thing. You need to adapt. You need to push more, and resteal so much more (i think at $3 is almost impossible to resteal)

      You will have less implied odds, since players are not that bad. But dont worry, its totally beatable, just work your game.
    • Snarf85
      Snarf85
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.10.2008 Posts: 59
      Originally posted by andreibalint
      PS: Can you really have such a big ROI on 6max turbos? wow.
      No. 30% = not sustainable!
    • kubernetes
      kubernetes
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2008 Posts: 34
      Originally posted by Snarf85
      Originally posted by andreibalint
      PS: Can you really have such a big ROI on 6max turbos? wow.
      No. 30% = not sustainable!
      I might be running slightly good, but lol at no sustainable.

      I strongly suspect you are one of those intenet forum know-it-alls who spend their time making useless post like this.
      If you couldnt achieve a higher roi when you played these games, thats tough shit, dude, I am very sorry.
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      Originally posted by kubernetes
      Originally posted by Snarf85
      Originally posted by andreibalint
      PS: Can you really have such a big ROI on 6max turbos? wow.
      No. 30% = not sustainable!
      I might be running slightly good, but lol at no sustainable.

      I strongly suspect you are one of those intenet forum know-it-alls who spend their time making useless post like this.
      If you couldnt achieve a higher roi when you played these games, thats tough shit, dude, I am very sorry.
      I dont think there is any need for this personal attack.

      30% roi is not sustainable due to rake so I would retract your statement
    • kubernetes
      kubernetes
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2008 Posts: 34
      Of course 30% is a very high roi.

      What this poster was actually doind is suggesting that a high roi is impossible at this level just because they say so. I have also read many of those articles and posts stating what is a "normal" roi for any given level. And I am sure most of peope here have. So, his/her answer was useless.

      BTW, I am not quite sure what do you mean by "unsustainable because of the rake". AFAIK, the roi is calcuated after rake.
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      roi is calculated including rake
    • kubernetes
      kubernetes
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2008 Posts: 34
      Originally posted by lennonac
      roi is calculated including rake
      Yes, that's why if I were you I¡d rethink my previous statement, namely "unsustainable because of rake".
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      so you are saying the rake has no effect?
    • kubernetes
      kubernetes
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2008 Posts: 34
      Yes, I am saying the rake has no influence in the RoI given how the RoI it is usually calcuated.
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      well then you are confused.

      Good luck in the future
    • kubernetes
      kubernetes
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2008 Posts: 34
      Originally posted by lennonac
      well then you are confused.

      Good luck in the future
      No you are confused.
      Just to put it more clearly, the rake have no influence in the projection of RoI. I hope it makes sense to you now.
      And try adding some reasoning to your next reply, otherwise you are just being a troll.
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      do i really have to break down to you why rake DOES effect your roi, changing your argument is not the way to go.
    • LgWz
      LgWz
      Black
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 7,641
      30% is not sustainable for STTs

      100 games doesn't mean too much

      If I were you I'd just keep playing on the new level (as long as you're rolled) while studying, because it should be very beatable, you're probably running badly more due to variance than to bad play (experience says it's usually a bit of both though =p)
    • DeLau
      DeLau
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.01.2009 Posts: 1,606
      Hey kubernetes,

      I would just keep on grinding (following BRM rules). I think it is impossible to drop 40% in roi between two buy-in levels. I guess you were a winning player on the 3.25s running very good and now still a winning player (probably bit less) running bad.

      About the rake issue, I thought ROI was calculated including rake, so your 30% should be calculated including rake as well. Not that that discussion matters much to your initial question...
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      evaluate when you played 5000 sngs on your new level.
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