"Short Stack Stategy" question

    • Teyiebuns
      Teyiebuns
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2009 Posts: 60
      I *hope* this is the right forum! I was majorly confused! I have just started playing poker altogether. I am using the short stack strategy as the pdf file shows me! I have been having very bad luck so far! (maybe, or maybe I'm doing it wrong!).

      I've played 1700 hands and I'm $17.00 down so far. Anyway - I have a few questions about the strategy!

      If I follow the .pdf it says if I have a playable hand, play to the flop, then get nothing - I should bluff with 60% of the pot value. Now, if I'm called or raised what should I do? It says surrender the bluff, which is easy to understand, but what if this happens:

      I have 88 for example, raise in late position.

      The flop is 5 7 9

      I raise 60% of pot - my enemy calls

      The turn is some irrelevant card, say 2 - I check, but so does the other player.

      Then the river, and along comes a J - I check again, but my enemy calls $0.20 (this NL10) - I fold, but the pot had nearly $3 in and I was tempted to call the 1:15 amount to see the showdown! But the guide says just fold anything where I don't have a made hand. I don't what to do - will following this exactly pay off in the end. Obviously being about -6BB/100 hands down after 1600 hands I am bit worried I'm doing something wrong.

      The pre-flop is easy but the post-flop gets me worried, I always wonder if I am 'bluffing' the 60% of the pot on the flop, if this is nearly my whole amount, should I just raise all-in, just so i can have a chance of winning for nearly free?

      Thanks so much if anyone reads this, especially if they reply :-P
  • 10 replies
    • noclaninator
      noclaninator
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2008 Posts: 312
      The guide is super basic. In your example I would probably fire all in on the turn. Since this is NL10 he does not have to have you beat every time. A player on this limit can have like 67 for example where he flops a pair and a gutshot and won't fold. If you do fire all in and he calls and has you beat, most of the time you will have a chance to hit one of your 6 outs. You can fire all in and he may call without having you beat with say the 67 or whatever.

      Use your own judgement. The guide is just that - a guide. It is hard not to break the rules at least sometimes.
    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      "The pre-flop is easy but the post-flop gets me worried, I always wonder if I am 'bluffing' the 60% of the pot on the flop, if this is nearly my whole amount, should I just raise all-in, just so i can have a chance of winning for nearly free?"

      If on the flop your "bluff" continuation bet is equal to or more than half your remaining stack then you may as well put the lot in.

      For example if on NL10 you raise to .60c pre flop (2 limpers before you), and get 1 caller, there is .6 + .6 + .05 + .1 + .1 or approx $1.45 in the pot and you have $1.4 left in your stack (assuming your starting stack of $2). Your c-bet or "bluff" would have to be 60% (approx) of the pot or 6 x .14 = .84c. This is more than 50% of your stack so you are better off going all-in. This will also give your opponent worse odds to call and will someti,mes increase your chances of winning the pot there and then.

      Hope this helps.

      Cheers and gl at the tables
    • Teyiebuns
      Teyiebuns
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2009 Posts: 60
      Thank you both for your responses! Both very helpful and friendly, I look forward to following your advice. I have a few more questions (again, thank you to anyone who reads, and apologies to anyone inconvenienced)...

      I am very new (I admit) to poker and have only played 1700 hands so far, but I have consistenly lost and being $17 down so far it's better to ask you experts than suffer in silence, so only read if you have nothing better to do! :-P

      (1)
      If I have a hand (pre-flop) that is a 'raise or re-raise' hand (e.g. AK) but the player before me raises a normal amount (say 4BB), should I go all-in, which is the impression I get from the guide, or should I raise 3x their raise like I saw in one of the coaching videos.
      (2)
      In the guide it says if you get a 'made hand' on the flop you should "bet, raise and try to go all in". I don't understand this because does it mean I should raise 60% of pot and hope they re-raise or does it mean go all-in on the flop? If the opponent calls but then on the 'turn' there is a card that ruins my 'made hand' should I fold, or go all-in if I have a small stack left?
      (3)
      Similar question, if someone before me raises, but a pathetic raise, like 1BB should I go all-in or just raise their raise. An example that annoys me is when I have a card that is normally playable like AQ in middle, but then someone after me does a pathetic raise like 1BB and I have to fold!
      (4)
      If I have a hand that says (Play if ONE player has raised before you - only):
      What happens if I have ONE raiser before me, then someone calls his raise, is that two 'raises' or just one? If you understand me?
      (5)
      Am I right in thinking if I have a hand like TT pre-flop I should raise (middle-late) if I am the first raiser, but if someone re-raises I should always fold, even if the raiser is the BB or SB? On a video I saw it mentioned blind-stealing and re-stealing, but this isn't in my starting hand and I'm not familiar with this concept fully yet.
      (6)
      Should I always bet 60% of the pot on the flop as a bluff, even if I am first to act and I probably will get called or re-raised, or should I cut my loses.
    • Teyiebuns
      Teyiebuns
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2009 Posts: 60
      Note: I only just found the section on 'steals' and 're-steals'! It hadn't printed out on my chart before so I've probably folded loads of playable hands on the BB cause I didn't know to 're-steal' with 88, 99, TT, AQ, AJ so this is 5 hands I've been folding every 9 hands potentially, probably contibuting towards my negative BB/100 hands!
    • umbramea
      umbramea
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.01.2010 Posts: 1
      Originally posted by Teyiebuns
      (2)
      In the guide it says if you get a 'made hand' on the flop you should "bet, raise and try to go all in". I don't understand this because does it mean I should raise 60% of pot and hope they re-raise or does it mean go all-in on the flop?
      I am also interested on this task.Thank you !
    • Ultifanatic
      Ultifanatic
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.04.2008 Posts: 100
      (1)
      If I have a hand (pre-flop) that is a 'raise or re-raise' hand (e.g. AK) but the player before me raises a normal amount (say 4BB), should I go all-in, which is the impression I get from the guide, or should I raise 3x their raise like I saw in one of the coaching videos.

      If you are new to SSS and poker in general, then if someone raises before you and you have one of the top starting hands in the guide. Then you should go all in. Most of the time you will be ahead and or just have to win the coin toss. The 3x reraise is if you are advanced and have stats/notes on the villains

      (2)
      In the guide it says if you get a 'made hand' on the flop you should "bet, raise and try to go all in". I don't understand this because does it mean I should raise 60% of pot and hope they re-raise or does it mean go all-in on the flop? If the opponent calls but then on the 'turn' there is a card that ruins my 'made hand' should I fold, or go all-in if I have a small stack left?

      SSS in the beginning is about helping you know that there are only a few premium hands in poker. If you are in a hand with one of these hands, then you make top pair or better with no scary board, you should be betting if you are first to act, raising if you get bet into and going all in if the bet or raise puts more than 1/2 your stack into the pot. If you bet on the flop and the turn ruins your hand, yes let it go and move on to the next good hand that comes up


      (3)
      Similar question, if someone before me raises, but a pathetic raise, like 1BB should I go all-in or just raise their raise. An example that annoys me is when I have a card that is normally playable like AQ in middle, but then someone after me does a pathetic raise like 1BB and I have to fold!

      If it is from early position, then it could be a monster that they are trying to slow play. If you have stats/notes on the villian you can then decide what to do. If it is in mid pos, then it is up to you whether you want to treat it as a limp or not. As you gain experience you will know when to do such things

      (4)
      If I have a hand that says (Play if ONE player has raised before you - only):
      What happens if I have ONE raiser before me, then someone calls his raise, is that two 'raises' or just one? If you understand me?

      It is just 1 raise, callers do not count as raisers.

      (5)
      Am I right in thinking if I have a hand like TT pre-flop I should raise (middle-late) if I am the first raiser, but if someone re-raises I should always fold, even if the raiser is the BB or SB? On a video I saw it mentioned blind-stealing and re-stealing, but this isn't in my starting hand and I'm not familiar with this concept fully yet.

      Yes you should fold to a re-raise with TT if you are not experienced. As for stealing and re-stealing, that is completely an advance add-on to the starting hands chart and requires stats/notes and more experience.

      (6)
      Should I always bet 60% of the pot on the flop as a bluff, even if I am first to act and I probably will get called or re-raised, or should I cut my loses.

      If you are in a pot agaisnt ONE villian, then you should be Cbetting most flops whether you hit or not. That is unless the board is 89T suited AKQ and you have 7's ect...Agaisnt more than ONE villian, Cbet only your made hands, check or fold the rest.


      As with the basic SSS guide, this is only a yes/no type of response to your questions. There is alot more advanced moves you can make as you gain experience in poker and at SSS....
    • knasen1
      knasen1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.01.2009 Posts: 21
      sorry already answerd;)
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Teyiebuns,

      Remember that there is a forum for posting those hands that you're not sure if you played correctly, which is dedicated to the short stack strategy.

      Everyone is very helpful on there and will assist you in ironing out any problems and getting you back to profit with your time and patience.

      GL!
      Tim
    • Teyiebuns
      Teyiebuns
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2009 Posts: 60
      Thank you to EVERYONE who answered in my post, especially Ultifanatic as that must have took ages to respond to, I appreciate it very much :-)

      Also, thanks for the advice Tim, I will check it out, I was reading your story the other day on the other forum too :-D
    • Ultifanatic
      Ultifanatic
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.04.2008 Posts: 100
      No problem....keep posting, asking questions and trying to figure out the art of playing poker....