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Finding leaks with PokerTracker

    • wilm
      Joined: 13.07.2006 Posts: 1,583
      It has now been 3 months ago that i have started playing SH at the 0.5/1 tables. In these 3 months i have played 11.415 hands and at this moment im down 74BB (0.65BB/100).

      Im always posting my trouble hands to try to improve my game but this isnt enough. I know that now im using PokerTracker i can play more read-based poker but im sure i have more leaks besides that.

      So basicly i want to find some leaks that i have in my game and i need you guys to help me out with this because im not sure where to look.

      First off my stats:

      11,415 hands

      VPIP from SB:24.38

      Folded SB to Steal:77.87
      Folded BB to Steal:55.49
      Att. To Steal Blinds:34.65

      Won $ WSF%:39.11
      Amount Won(-$74.67)
      BB/100 hands: 0.65
      Went to SD:31.51

      PF Raise:17.36

      PF AF:3.23
      FLOP AF:3.76
      TURN AF:3.34
      RIVER AF:1.68
      Total AF:3.12

      If there is anyting unnormal abouth these stats please let me know. Now something strange i have also discovered while browsing my stats but im not really sure what it means.

      Im not sure if im correct but dos this mean i am losing all of my money from the blinds? What can i do to improve this?

      If there are any other things u guys want me to make screenshots from just let me know and i will add them to this thread.

      Thanks in advance!
  • 12 replies
    • frzl
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      ok i will try. first of all i want to say that i don´t really like analysing stats because
      - i don´t know too much about it and
      - some people try to fix their stats by doing wrong moves at the wrong time just to increase their af or something

      ok lets see. 11k hands aren´t too much so you could still be a winning player (e.g. i played about 70k hands on 1/2 with 2bb/100 and now i´m break even since 10k hands so... ^^). just keep on playing and post hands where you are not sure how to play them.
      as i said i´m not a "stats specialist" but i think your vpip and your pfr should be higher. your ats should be 35-40 (as far as i remember) when you stick to the orc.
      af looks a bit high but maybe thats just your "style". there is a prof. judge in the german board who has a much higher af and is doing fine so... :D

      i hope i didn´t talk too much crap but if you want you can have a look at the stoxtrader videos (i think it should be 0,5/1 or 1/2)... there he is talking about stats and some ranges.

      i had a look at some threads in the german board:

      vpip should be around 25. wts about 35 or a bit higher. pfr 20+-2. ats 35-40
      thats what i´ve found. so don´t flame me if its wrong :D
    • the_typhoon
      Joined: 02.03.2005 Posts: 1,418
      I agree in most points with frzl. You should take my following suggetions just as guidelinde, and don't forget, that you are playing your hands and not your stats.

      Your went to showdown is a bit to low (33 would be better), read small stakes hold'em that will help you to loosen up. Your aggression factor will automatically decrease if you do so.

      Your pfr and your ats should be ok as long as you are playing according orc.

      Your vpip is too low, 22-23 is better, what's the best way too increase it?

      - Call with higher suited connectors and lower pairs against 2 limpers before you.

      - Against 2 limpers you can complete any 2 suited and the higher connectors in the small blind.

      - Defend your bb more Fold bb 2 steal 44 is good afaik you need an equity of 35% against the stealers range, just toy a bit around with stove.

      Many strong players on the higher limits have got a vpip higher than 24, but they're winning players despite their high vpip and not because their high vpip, trust me.
    • wilm
      Joined: 13.07.2006 Posts: 1,583
      I know i have to play my hands and not play the stats. Im aware of that so dont worry =)

      So u think my VPIP is a bit low? Could this be variance? I am playing by the ORC so i think its kinda strange its this low imo. Im certainly going to work on the things u pointed out typhoon thanks for the advice.

      Another thing is my WTS. I noticed it was kinda low also. I think it has to do with my river play wich is bad atm. For instance i never bet or call a river with AK unimproved in HU situation. I have to work on these things but they are also very read-related but now that im playing with PokerTracker things will get better.

      We can make the overall conclusion that my stats look pretty ok? Just working on the points typhoon mentioned and improving my river play will help alot allready.

      Btw why dont u guys mentioned something abouth the image i included in the starting post?
    • ciRith
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Pushing the vpip and pfr is very difficult and may can't increase it. I myself don't have very high vpip and pfr value and I'm playing accoring to the ORC.
      The idea with limping as typhoon told you are nice and I think I will do this now too. (More than before.)

      Nearly everything has been said already but even 33% wts is too low in my opinion. Get it up to around 35%.
      I like you defending values. I often read that 85% at the SB and 55% at the BB is ok.

      Btw you can raise ATs+, ATo+, KQo, KQs in the BB if all only limped ahead of your (doesn't matter how many callers.)
      You have to give these hand up more often directly on the flop but the chance being dominated is very low so you can make good value out of it. :)

      About your screenshot:

      Everything is fine.
      It's normal that you loose money in the blinds and win the most on the button. That's because you are forced to pay in the SB and BB and very often you can't go on. And even if you have a playable hand you are oop. :)
    • wilm
      Joined: 13.07.2006 Posts: 1,583
      And what do u think abouth my 74BB loss in 11k hands if i may ask ciRith? Maybe u know if im a good or bad player seeing the hands im posting. Any ideas what i could improve? I have read SSHE many times. Also just read Weighting the odds :/

      Cant stand the fact that im doing something wrong. Or maybe im not? Arf....
    • aciddrop
      Joined: 08.10.2006 Posts: 1,519
      Wilm, take heart. After I first moved up to .5/1 SH FL, I initially won, but then went into a period similar to yours. I lost all the gains, and then lost some more, and couldn't get even again. I played nearly 25K hands, and lost 83BB nett. It was so frustrating, I had to stop. I felt helpless because I didn't know what to do differently, and couldn't judge at all if I was playing ok or not.

      In the end I switched to NL SSS, because that seemed simpler. It has been a success, though initially, my bad luck continued, and I lost 18 (you read correctly, 18!) buy ins at NL10 in the first 2.5K hands. After 8K hands, I had recovered all of that. It was much easier to tell whether the results were because I played badly, or my opponents did. SSS is good like that. I found Party to be very tight, and even though I was +ev, it was difficult to find enough tables in my time zone. I joined up at Titan, and that has been a success. My average winrate over 28K hands is 1.5/100, which is fine. There have been a couple of bad sessions, including one of 360 hands in which I lost 12 buy-ins! AA, QQ, AK, everything got beaten. The good thing though is that my play was largely correct, so they were winning bets I was making. And my bankroll could sustain that hit.

      I am playing NL100 now, still SSS, though I am going to study the BSS soon, to see if that isn't a better option. I am a VIP at Titan (oohhh) which means that apart from converting my PS $600 bonus at a good rate, I also get a regular monthly loyalty bonus there as well. :tongue:

      And (drumroll) tonight I won a PS freeroll there, and collected $2000, which is amazing!

      I certainly enjoyed FL, up to the point where I stopped knowing what to do anymore. But I must say, the NL scene suits me much more now. Keep playing, keep making the correct bets. Possibly even give NL a try at the lower levels to see if the change refreshes you.

    • wilm
      Joined: 13.07.2006 Posts: 1,583
      Hehe hey aciddrop didnt see u for a while around here. Now i can figure out why =) Glad to see you doing ok at the tables again!

      Sure it has crossed my mind a few times to maybe switch over to NL SSS. But i like FL to much to leave it right now. I have also put alot of reading into FL and i cant just throw it all out of the window just like that.

      I am going to work on my game and try to become a +EV player again on the SH tables. If im back in the same situation in 3months i might consider giving the "simple SSS" game a try. But not before i seriously tryed to be a winning player at SH FL =)

      Man u even seriously got my thinking abouth trying out NL SSS. Damn you! =)

      Edit: Dude u still aint got MSN or IRC?
    • aciddrop
      Joined: 08.10.2006 Posts: 1,519
      =) Keep thinking about it!

      No I still haven't got any messaging client, but I'll look into it. Can you recommend anything other than MSN?
    • wilm
      Joined: 13.07.2006 Posts: 1,583
      Hm not one that im using right now...

      U can try ICQ or AOL instant messenger but whats the point? I think MSN is the safest to use imo. Why dont u want to use MSN?

      Atleast just try it and after that tell me if u still dont want to use it. U can add me with the following e-mail adress:
    • Pacer357
      Joined: 18.04.2007 Posts: 1,807
      If you are using MSN see to it that you don´t have your MSN account and your poker accounts linked to the same mailserver. Hotmail is very easy to hack and if you hack the mailserver your poker account is very easy to empty. Never trust people that you don´t know to get access to MSN and if you play hi never trust your friends with it either.
    • JackxxRatt
      Joined: 18.07.2007 Posts: 119
      Correct me if I'm wrong here (I'm a NL player but pokertracker topic interested me) but your VPIP on the BB seem a little high (compared to the rest of your positional play) or is that the nature of FL?. I say this as my own VPIP for BB is a lot lower than other positions so I'm going to take a stab and suggest you maybe calling to a lot of PFR's because you're "already in the pot"?.

      Personally I'd be making much use of the table below and analysing the 4000+ hands you have on the blinds, looking to see which hands are costing me most money, replaying them on the TV thingy and seeing whether I could've folded or not or whether I should even be playing that hand.

      Also, given that the rest of your positional play is profitable, maybe moving to FR might be appropriate until you've plugged the leaks in your blinds play?.

      Anyway, forgive me if I've just spouted rubbish as I'm a novice myself but I guess the best way to learn is to get involved with these discussions and get corrected if I am wrong. Good luck!
    • ciRith
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Calling 45% of the hands from the BB is a normal value for FL.
      I think you mean this value here correct? Folded BB to Steal:55.49

      4000 hands is a bit less to start analysing it because the variance is so high that even if you play every hands perfect you still might have a negative value and if you start correcting this perfect play you start playing wrong and that's very ineffective.

      The idea is good and if you do this later if you have much more hands you will get better very fast. :)