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Struggle at $2/4SH, hints for development???

    • funktor
      funktor
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.08.2008 Posts: 922
      • 05.01.2010, 01:03
      • This post has been edited 4 time(s), it was last edited by funktor: 05.01.2010 07:38.
      Hi!

      In december I switched to $2/4SH at FT and later played $2/4FR and $3/6FR.

      I did not like my results on $2/4SH after 20k hands... -$938 or -1.2BB/100.

      As well $3/6FR (12k hands, -$971 or -1.31BB/100
      -> lot of bad luck here... bellow 10 AA and KK each, as well hit sets on flop only 1:14)

      And in total on 44k hands -0.67BB/100...

      Fortunately these these losses were covered by rakeback and some other winnings, but overally I do not like spending 100 hours for nothing :s_frown: .

      My question is: Is there so significant difference between $1/2SH and $2/4SH??

      I am able beat $1/2SH at about 3.5-4BB/100 (net, rake excluded), so that means approximatelly 1-1.5BB/100 on FT/Stars, or close to 0BB/100 on sites like Party (where rake is close to 4BB/100 now :s_evil: , $0.05 per $1 in POT).

      I still have feeling that I do not handle swing very well when it comes to $2/4 and where I can overcome $200 on $1/2 quite OK, $400+ on $2/4 or $3/6 makes me quite nervous...

      Any hits for further development? (at the moment going through videos on Stoxpoker...)

      I decided to switch back to $1/2 and play $2/4 only at bodog (60% rakeback), where games tends to be very soft... but runs very seldom, as well chashed out $400, so my BR is $2k6 now.

      Regards

      Funktor
  • 12 replies
    • DukeFreedom
      DukeFreedom
      Black
      Joined: 07.04.2008 Posts: 3,511
      Originally posted by funktor
      My question is is there so significant difference between $1/2SH and $2/4SH??
      IMO yes, definately. And it's insane.

      100k $2/4 result -1.7 BB/100
      100k $1/2 result +1.5 BB/100

      on Party.
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      • 05.01.2010, 09:37
      • This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Waiboy: 05.01.2010 09:43.
      Originally posted by funktor
      My question is is there so significant difference between $1/2SH and $2/4SH??
      I'd be surprised if there was at FTP to a significant degree - only from observing looseness of the tables there, not from personal experience as yet.

      Is it a table/seat selection issue? And obviously still a small sample size to draw any real conclusions as yet.

      As for further development, I guess it is the same sort of stuff - focusing on hand analysis and making sure you have a strategy for reviewing theory. Try to get in touch with other winning players at your limit or higher for hand/theory discussion. Never stop working on your game from the basics up to reduce the possiblity of leaks developing / detect previously undetected leaks. Never give up.

      My two cents anywhom.
    • Joshquan
      Joshquan
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2009 Posts: 479
      Unfortunatly I cannot comment on the difficulty level of $2/4 but from my experience psycological aspects are as important as the increased skill level when moving up limits. I experieced it in my first few K hands at $1/2. With very little stats on opponents or reads on them I just asumed that they were all better players than me and I was going to have to squeeze big bets of them.

      In reality, when stats and reads started to formulate I figured many werent any better than me, but due to my midset I had possibly playing worse which had contributed to my losses, as well as a slight bad run.

      Best of luck cracking 2/4!

      PS. how do yuo get the sick rakeback? I want in!!!!
    • DarthBobo
      DarthBobo
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2007 Posts: 1,134
      Hi Funktor

      For me the switch from 1/2 to 2/4 was (and still is) the hardest moveup ever.
      I'm so happy that it has lower rake. That and rakeback basically prevent me from moving down. I still add one or 2 tables of 1/2 occasionally because there are just SO MUCH MORE fish there.

      I don't have much advice to give other than that you just have to take your game to the next level.

      I have seen that on other forums ppl have beat 2/4 and 3/6 over large sample sizes for 2 BB/100 and more. For example this one:
      http://www.pokertableratings.com/stars-player-search/unguarded

      Seeing that this is possible, it makes me want to improve my game really hard. 2 BB/100 winners also have a lot less problems with the psychological part of poker cause the downswings they experience are a lot easier to cope with.

      So my goal is to strive for higher winrate and the rest will follow. But I figure you already knew that...

      Anyway I'm on stoxpoker as well and imo this is a VERY useful addition for players like us.
    • Joshquan
      Joshquan
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2009 Posts: 479
      Also, does playing at party poker decrease your winrate so dramatically? Im playing there on .50/1 been trying to move to 1/2 and was thinking about moving anyway, does it really eat up so many BB?
    • DukeFreedom
      DukeFreedom
      Black
      Joined: 07.04.2008 Posts: 3,511
      Rake on Party at $1/2 is extreme indeed, but you get a lot back if you go for the 30% rakeback bonus and it's certainly beatable.
    • funktor
      funktor
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.08.2008 Posts: 922
      • 05.01.2010, 23:41
      • This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by funktor: 05.01.2010 23:50.
      I do not know how much is rakeback now on party with new system. But in past it was true, that $0.5/1 was way tougher than $1/2 as it was possible get like 60% rakeback if someone went for $3k bonus.

      But if you think about game with same skilled oponents your edge is same... the only diference is rake paid.

      And if you pay one time 2BB/100 and other time 4BB/100 this makes difference 2BB/100 hands in winrate. This makes easy equation... (gross winrate - rake + rakeback ) per 100 hands with additional consideration how often are you paid that rakeback/bonus/promotions.

      Funktor

      P.S.: That sick rakeback was on Party... combination of Gladiator + bought bonuses + some bonus I was issued by party because I did not showed up for some time :D .
      P.P.S.: But anyway I rather prefere have bigger edge in net winrate (gross winrate - rake) and have less in bonuses. You will overcome swings much easier and with lower bankroll.
    • Joshquan
      Joshquan
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2009 Posts: 479
      okay, i realise we are going slightly of topic but as the discussion has start, what sort of % rakeback do you get when the 100% 600$ FDB at stars or FTP (i dont think you recieve rakeback (27%) when clearign this bonus) but what would this equate to?
    • Berkstajger
      Berkstajger
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.03.2009 Posts: 878
      RB with FDP on FTP is around 40%, slightly more. With regular succeeding the Ironman requirements you get around 30% RB all together (when you clear FDB.)
    • DarthBobo
      DarthBobo
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2007 Posts: 1,134
      You get 27% anyway so being iron man adds just 3%?
      I think it's a lot more if you take into account the mid-year and end-year bonus.
      It depends on your limit of course cause these bonusses are a fixed amount.
    • Berkstajger
      Berkstajger
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.03.2009 Posts: 878
      It's not my calculation... it was some FTP player here that calculated that, but I forgot who, maybe he'll check in. :)

      Waiboy seemed like calculation-happy guy judging by his Titan/Mansion posts... maybe he'll do it for us? :D
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by Berkstajger
      It's not my calculation... it was some FTP player here that calculated that, but I forgot who, maybe he'll check in. :)

      Waiboy seemed like calculation-happy guy judging by his Titan/Mansion posts... maybe he'll do it for us? :D
      Whoa... steady on there cowboy.. :f_eek:

      You're thinking of the legend of CoreySteel. I'm just a happy poster with no meaningful information in any of my posts.. long may it continue! :f_confused: :f_cool: