heads up = most skill required ?

    • spit22
      spit22
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      Joined: 03.11.2008 Posts: 309
      Hey everyone, i've been playing sng hu with a lot of success the last few months.

      in pokerstars from 10$ i went to 300$ in 20 hu games (with v aggressive bankroll)! some may say it was heater but i think it wasn't. i had huge edge against my opponents and i avoided all coin flips and situations 60-40 favorite.

      aside that, i am constantly beating my level (which is not so high i admit - 20$) at fulltilt with big ROI especially in shootout sngs.

      it's a pitty that there is not more people that play hu . i think it's poker at its finest since you constantly play the player and not so much your cards. it's were you will learn to make great laydowns and great calls..

      what do you think ?
  • 23 replies
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
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      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      I think i'd play whatever offers me the highest profit and for me thats FR cash games with a little bit of SH.

      You are on a heater! Enjoy your downswing when it comes....Varriance is a real bitch in HU. =)

      Good luck though
    • Berzerger
      Berzerger
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      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 910
      100 BI is pretty much the minimum in HU. Any less and you'll be crushed alive by the first downswing you get. Also, if you want to actually become a good HU player, switch to cash games, more skill involved + relatively less variance.
    • Dendra
      Dendra
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      Joined: 28.01.2009 Posts: 479
      short-handed play is imo better, in HU there is much more luck and you can for example shove A5o vs A6o and yeah, what can you do, the guy got lucky to have a better kicker or whatever. Short-handed has a good combo of skills and luck :P - and in FR you cant play so much "poker" as you can with less players at the table.
    • Irooz
      Irooz
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      Joined: 05.04.2009 Posts: 690
      .
    • spit22
      spit22
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      Joined: 03.11.2008 Posts: 309
      Originally posted by Dendra
      short-handed play is imo better, in HU there is much more luck and you can for example shove A5o vs A6o and yeah, what can you do, the guy got lucky to have a better kicker or whatever. Short-handed has a good combo of skills and luck :P - and in FR you cant play so much "poker" as you can with less players at the table.
      first i am not talking about turbos. A5 vs A6 will happen only if you think you don't have and edge or blinds got really big otherwise you know your opponents range and you know when you are clearly ahead or close.

      SH vs Hu. in hu you can get a lot more reads than in SH game. More reads= less luck involved.

      cash games vs SnG hu . i don't like that a lot of players hit n run at cash .

      variance ? more likely at turbo hu . in normal Hu you get variance if you have a very small edge and you are playing against regs / or super aggressive players that are good . Otherwise its IMPOSSIBLE to have a downswing (i have 1100+ games and still no downswings at non turbo). you have too much time to pick your spots. i find the blind structure to offer you a lot of opportunities, especially at pokerstars.

      edit: the thing at pokerstars was bad BRM of course. i know. but still i found my opponents so be super soft at 10$ -20$ limits
    • Octhellior
      Octhellior
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      Joined: 06.10.2008 Posts: 108
      its IMPOSSIBLE to have a downswing
      Sweet.
    • SuvorovNL
      SuvorovNL
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      Joined: 13.05.2009 Posts: 606
      Famous last words?

      "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..." (General John Sedgwick, battle of Spotsylvania, 1864) :D
    • evertonroar
      evertonroar
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      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 737
      first of all, congratulations. that was a nice solid brag. well played sir.

      with regard to the rest of what you said, you had me until 'impossible to have a downswing'. to much time to pick your spots and make sure your ahead? well thats what a downswing is. when you are ahead before the river and then all of a sudden your not. repeat ad naseum
    • DevilDonk
      DevilDonk
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      Joined: 26.03.2009 Posts: 20
      I play HU stg alot, and i have to tell you that yua are really pushing your luck. Downswing will come believe me and it will hit you hard if you dont have a proper BRM.

      Othervise i agree with you, it really is the best and moast exciting type of poker.
    • spit22
      spit22
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      Joined: 03.11.2008 Posts: 309
      ok ok delete the downswing part.that is probably true only if you play with extremely weak opponents

      i see now that my post does sounds like a brag indeed . to make up for it, i have been losing quite lot at big 24+2 $ tourneys .. :)

      i just wanna bring more people to hu . they improve, we take their money while they do. it's a win win !

      edit : by downswing i mean at least 10 buyins
    • evertonroar
      evertonroar
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      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 737
      dont get me wrong. we all strive for success. nothing wrong with a good brag :]
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
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      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Originally posted by Dendra
      and in FR you cant play so much "poker" as you can with less players at the table.
      This is not true. For micros and low limits it is. When you get to Medium and High limits you can actually really open your game up in certain spots. Manipulating your "hand ranges" will become a bigger part of the game when your playing with really tough players.
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
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      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Originally posted by spit22
      Originally posted by Dendra
      short-handed play is imo better, in HU there is much more luck and you can for example shove A5o vs A6o and yeah, what can you do, the guy got lucky to have a better kicker or whatever. Short-handed has a good combo of skills and luck :P - and in FR you cant play so much "poker" as you can with less players at the table.
      Otherwise its IMPOSSIBLE to have a downswing
      Its never "impossible" to have a downswing.
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
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      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      Originally posted by spit22
      Originally posted by Dendra
      short-handed play is imo better, in HU there is much more luck and you can for example shove A5o vs A6o and yeah, what can you do, the guy got lucky to have a better kicker or whatever. Short-handed has a good combo of skills and luck :P - and in FR you cant play so much "poker" as you can with less players at the table.
      Otherwise its IMPOSSIBLE to have a downswing
      Its never "impossible" to have a downswing.
      Downswings don't exists. Sites are rigged :]
    • Dendra
      Dendra
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      Joined: 28.01.2009 Posts: 479
      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      Originally posted by Dendra
      and in FR you cant play so much "poker" as you can with less players at the table.
      This is not true. For micros and low limits it is. When you get to Medium and High limits you can actually really open your game up in certain spots. Manipulating your "hand ranges" will become a bigger part of the game when your playing with really tough players.
      still imo sh>fr skill-wise but anyway, we're here to make money/have fun/whatever, poker is a lot about luck so it's not like we can discuss skill - if it was about skill, no fish would ever win a tourney - in games where skill counts, you can play 1,000 games and a lesser skilled player will always lose,

      for the sake of example I will name StarCraft here - opposed to poker where I can go play Ivey heads-up and take more than a few games from him because it's luck and if it weren't for luck, there wouldnt be so many bad players out there since they'd all go broke in a day.
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
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      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Originally posted by Tampaloeres81
      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      Originally posted by spit22
      Originally posted by Dendra
      short-handed play is imo better, in HU there is much more luck and you can for example shove A5o vs A6o and yeah, what can you do, the guy got lucky to have a better kicker or whatever. Short-handed has a good combo of skills and luck :P - and in FR you cant play so much "poker" as you can with less players at the table.
      Otherwise its IMPOSSIBLE to have a downswing
      Its never "impossible" to have a downswing.
      Downswings don't exists. Sites are rigged :]
      Lol, obviously...silly me :evil: *DOH* :D
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
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      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Originally posted by Dendra
      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      Originally posted by Dendra
      and in FR you cant play so much "poker" as you can with less players at the table.
      This is not true. For micros and low limits it is. When you get to Medium and High limits you can actually really open your game up in certain spots. Manipulating your "hand ranges" will become a bigger part of the game when your playing with really tough players.
      still imo sh>fr skill-wise but anyway, we're here to make money/have fun/whatever, poker is a lot about luck so it's not like we can discuss skill - if it was about skill, no fish would ever win a tourney - in games where skill counts, you can play 1,000 games and a lesser skilled player will always lose,

      for the sake of example I will name StarCraft here - opposed to poker where I can go play Ivey heads-up and take more than a few games from him because it's luck and if it weren't for luck, there wouldnt be so many bad players out there since they'd all go broke in a day.
      I agree with this =) I was just pointing something out that had been overlooked.
    • DiegoFueng
      DiegoFueng
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      Joined: 13.10.2008 Posts: 3,667
      I'm a regular heads up cash no limit player

      You DO can have a downswing. And by downswing i mean like.. 30 buy ins or something, obv more as well, but 30 buy ins its the start of a downswing imo.

      If you, by downswing, you mean 10 buy ins, then it's rediculus what you say, and it's obviously that your just a newbie.

      When i'm playing a sesion, sometimes im 6 buy ins down.. sometimes im 10 buy ins up, i mean.. is just as normal as it is for that one who plays full ring to end up 4 buy ins down on a sesion and say poker is rigged, i just dont care, is normal.

      Highest profits: heads up cash no limit, not full ring, not shorthanded, obv less variance, but not higher profits.

      Originally posted by Dendra
      short-handed play is imo better, in HU there is much more luck and you can for example shove A5o vs A6o and yeah, what can you do, the guy got lucky to have a better kicker or whatever. Short-handed has a good combo of skills and luck :P - and in FR you cant play so much "poker" as you can with less players at the table.
      Please, i hope your not serious. If you push A5 is becouse u know he's gonna fold often enough, ur not looking for him to call with 78 for example. If he has a better kicker, that's part of the game, it will happen in full ring, it will happen in shorthanded, tourneys, razz or whatever.

      Is so much less luck in heads up than in full ring and shorthanded. In full ring you have JJ and you want to go all in, but you think it's very possible they have AA. In heads up you have JJ and you want to go all in and you dont care what he has, if he has AA, fuck it, it will happen like never, so ur winning money with that move.

      Everything is profitable if you play good, its just heads up is more than othergames, IMO.


      Seriously guys, most of you, if you really think you know something about heads up, take that idea out of ur mind, becouse u dont
    • sirilidion
      sirilidion
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      Joined: 15.04.2008 Posts: 1,575


      still imo sh>fr skill-wise but anyway, we're here to make money/have fun/whatever, poker is a lot about luck so it's not like we can discuss skill - if it was about skill, no fish would ever win a tourney - in games where skill counts, you can play 1,000 games and a lesser skilled player will always lose,

      for the sake of example I will name StarCraft here - opposed to poker where I can go play Ivey heads-up and take more than a few games from him because it's luck and if it weren't for luck, there wouldnt be so many bad players out there since they'd all go broke in a day.
      You are wrong there is skill at poker. Because take the Ivey the heads-up against Ivey if it was just luck you would have as much chance as winning as losing against him. But it is not just luck and through that Ivey obvious has some edge over you he would take you're money if you played long enough against him.

      The reason there are so many fish is that there is quite some luck in the game but the chances of them winning shortterm are quite a bit lower then an experienced player and the chances of them winning longterm are almost non existing.
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