Filter for PT3 SSS basic

    • gummi1
      gummi1
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      Joined: 01.04.2008 Posts: 2,291
      I'm trying to create a filter for pt3 to see if the basic SSS is profitable or not does anyone already do it?

      Because now i'm down about 30 buy-in and i would like to see if i played exaclty the basic strategy i were up or not.
  • 16 replies
    • thazar
      thazar
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      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      what limits are you playing at? waht filter are you looking for? I am not sure I understand your question.
    • gummi1
      gummi1
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      Joined: 01.04.2008 Posts: 2,291
      Sorry for my english, please correct my errors.

      Anyway i play NL50. I'm sure I make a lot of mistakes playing SSS so i would like to create a filter that eliminate the hands played out of the basic strategy to see if I'm up or not.
    • thazar
      thazar
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      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      what i do rather than a filter is go to the hands section then you can order them by clicking on the appropriate heading. you could for example order them by winnings (that is what i do). It showed me for example that the hand I lost the most money with was AQo. because of my very bad post flop play :)

      Also 30BI is a lot do review your game. make sure you tigthen it. It is porbably due to loose play and may be refrain from bluffing, stealing for a little while. you might reduce some of the winnings but might also reduce seriously your losses. then re-implement them slowy as you gain experience. Also if you lost 30BI at NL50 you might want to go down to NL25 review your game and when more confident with your game and your strategy back to NL50



      btw I am gutted you beat me to posting the first post in this forum but well... :D



      good luck with your game.
    • gummi1
      gummi1
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      Joined: 01.04.2008 Posts: 2,291
      I lost a lot of money in SSS 2 years ago and now at NL50 is the same and I'm broke.

      For the ev stat i shuolud be break even. I usually analyze the hands after one sessione and for example with AK QQ and JJ I'm down. Do you think is normal? I'm very very frustrated.
    • thazar
      thazar
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      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      Hi

      AK it can happen because With basic SSS it is a coin flip (even later on but since you make a lot more use of the stats you are often ahead when you use it)

      JJ can be to a lesser extent also a coin flip but eventually you should be winning with those with those over a large number of hand.

      I think your hand sample must be pretty small because QQ if you were to shove it all the time you would be winning after just a few.

      Rather than looking at the starting hand look how you played the hand and lost and see know that sit back as a spectator and have more time to think if you would have played the hand diferently.

      for example yesterday I was losing on my KK. i lost with about 6 of them that went all in preflop. But there is still no way that would fold my cowboys preflop. so I am happy with the way I played them and reviewed other part of the games (sometime even hands that I won by luck but played badly) It is your mistake or leaks that you have figure out rather than how much money you lose on a hand despite the frustration
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
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      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Hi,

      How many hands did you play? And why would you do that? If you didn't play just the basics you cant filter out just the basic hands. That will give a wrong result. People on the table will adjust there game to yours. If you loosen up they will loosen up so calling your AI lighter (which will make your big hands win more), if you steal they will resteal etc.
    • gummi1
      gummi1
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      Joined: 01.04.2008 Posts: 2,291
      20k hands, i would do that to analyze my game after a session.

      I would like to see if playing only the hands and in the same way of the basic strategy I'm up or not.
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
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      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      OK. I don't have PT3 so cant help you with that. No offence but just doubting analysing your game like that has any use :) Do you think the basic SSS is wrong? I think it is too basic for NL50. If a tight guy open raises from UTG, I will never ever ever go AI with my JJ for instance. His range SSS or BSS will be JJ+ and AK... So even QQ is -ev. But basic SSS says AI with JJ+ and AK. On the other hand if a looser guy on MP raises, I could push 99+

      Does PT3 have the AI ev line? If it does, are you running far below ev? You could also be unlucky and keep running into bigger hands... 20K is somewhat decent so
      a) youre very unlucky
      b) you have too much leaks still in your game.

      I use HEM and there is an overview with which starting hands you raised first in an which you re-raised with. That could quickly answer your question :)

      I had a break even stretch of 30K hands on NL25 but made $150 in the last 15K hands.
    • gummi1
      gummi1
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      Joined: 01.04.2008 Posts: 2,291
      Originally posted by Tampaloeres81
      Does PT3 have the AI ev line? If it does, are you running far below ev? You could also be unlucky and keep running into bigger hands... 20K is somewhat decent so
      a) youre very unlucky
      b) you have too much leaks still in your game.

      I had a break even stretch of 30K hands on NL25 but made $150 in the last 15K hands.
      For the ev i should be more or less break even but the for me the very unluck thing is that all time I go all in with AK or KK or QQ i found a bigger hand and this things can't be estimated from ev line.

      For sure I have also leak but i'm really really frustrated about this SSS.

      I' think i'm gonna play since 50K hands and the we will see.

      What do you suggest?
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
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      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Yes SSS is very frustating! It is swingy as hell. My last session (4.5K hands...) had a swing of 18BI!

      20K hands and around zero ev and being 30BI down sux big time though...

      You will always will run into some bigger hands. But you can try to minimise it by adjusting your re-raise range to their range.

      Do you use stats? If you do, have you played around with the equilator? You can use it to see how much equity your hand has against a certain range of the vilain. Don't be fooled by stats either, hand ranges differ very much from position to position. If someone is stealing a lot his PFR is rather high but dont think he will raise loose UTG or MP! If you have enough hands (500+) on the vilain use the positional raise stats instead. eg EP 4% MP 9% LP 30%

      Also use the starting hands of SSS and BSS from this site to determine hand ranges for different types of players (20BB or 100BB, half stacks mostly are fish) and their position. you can then make a standard re-raise chart for yourself for unknowns (eg too less hands) ;)
      For instance A BSS player raises LP:
      45s+
      JTo+
      A2s+
      ATo+
      22+

      Check with the equilator which hands are still favorite ;)



      Do you use table selection? Try to find fishier tables as they will call you down light thinking A8 is a strong hand :f_love:
    • Sirdoom
      Sirdoom
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      Joined: 02.12.2009 Posts: 23
      I'm in a similar position, have played roughly 20k hands basic SSS on NL10 FR and I'm down 29BI atm.

      As it seems on these forums with all the success-stories I gather that it definitley should be possible to beat both rake and loosing a lot from blinds with SSS. But I really can't see how. You win a majority of the flips but that seems not to be nearly enough, especially since you often only get the blinds with your raises.

      I play on iPoker, bet365 to be more specific, which seems rather tight and only few tables above 20% PPF even during the evenings.

      Some stats: (If other stats are of interest I can provide more)

      VP$IP: 5.67
      PFR: 5.56 (complete SB w PP's with 3+ limpers)
      Att to steal: 13.56

      One of the advice above was that he should tighten up, but it seems that I'm too tight since it's blinds and rake that's eating up a lot more than I win in showdowns. I play strictly according to the SHC, but loosen up a bit when stealing from BU or SB against a very tight opponent (doesn't seem like a leak. 88% steal success).

      Anyone have any idea how I should improve my game?
    • gummi1
      gummi1
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      Joined: 01.04.2008 Posts: 2,291
      Well, the problem is clear. you are too tight. At that level should be 12/12/35 Try to do a god table selection recharge every blind paid ad try to made some steal and resteal. Open your range don follow only shc. Play against oppo stats in particular you have to examinate: vip/pfr/3bet/att/foldcbetflop/fold biblind to steal
    • thazar
      thazar
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      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      Originally posted by gummygummy
      Well, the problem is clear. you are too tight. At that level should be 12/12/35 Try to do a god table selection recharge every blind paid ad try to made some steal and resteal. Open your range don follow only shc. Play against oppo stats in particular you have to examinate: vip/pfr/3bet/att/foldcbetflop/fold biblind to steal
      12/12 are more the stats of a BSS player a SSS player at lower levels is more like 9/7 or under.


      @Sirdoom: If the opponents are tights, loosen to steal more and if the blinds are really tight steal with any 2 cards since you only need it to work with 3 out 4 times for you to make profit. finally get to gold asap and get the few final articles about steal and resteal, Sklansky-Chubukov and adjusting your reraise range that make a big difference to advance SSS play. and then you learn through experience, discussion and hand review in the forum
    • Sirdoom
      Sirdoom
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      Joined: 02.12.2009 Posts: 23
      Originally posted by thazar

      If the opponents are tights, loosen to steal more and if the blinds are really tight steal with any 2 cards since you only need it to work with 3 out 4 times for you to make profit. finally get to gold asap and get the few final articles about steal and resteal, Sklansky-Chubukov and adjusting your reraise range that make a big difference to advance SSS play. and then you learn through experience, discussion and hand review in the forum
      I'll try to loosen up a bit against loose opponents and and also when stealing against tight ones and see how it works out.

      Getting to gold on NL10 with the new rake system on iPoker where only rake from pots you've invested money in counts seems pretty hard. But hopefully I'll get to NL20 rather loose my BR and be able to study them later.
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
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      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416

      12/12 are more the stats of a BSS player a SSS player at lower levels is more like 9/7 or under.
      My stats on NL25 are more like 13/12 and SSS'ing ;)
      EP is SHC
      MP is SHC or depends on EP open raiser.
      LP is waaay higher due to steals against nits and such ;)

      T.
    • gummi1
      gummi1
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      Joined: 01.04.2008 Posts: 2,291
      mine are vip/pfr/3bet/att/cbet/WTSD
      NL2
      14/9/4/36/80/38

      NL5
      14/11/5/36/67/38

      NL10
      13/11/6,5/35/84/26

      NL25
      13/11,5/6/39/92/38

      NL50
      11/10/6/28/90/43