Confused by elephant beginner page and HUD stats

    • gormless
      gormless
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.01.2010 Posts: 164
      I have just joined PokerStrategy, got my starting capital and bonus from Mansion.
      I am playing NL SSS beginner strategy to the letter and therefore I am in very few hands, but the hands i do play I raise.
      According to Elephant in beginner mode I and other players like me are marked as Very Tight for VPIP and Passive for Preflop Agression. It marks me as passive as I play very few hands. But surely this figure should be in the context of how many times someone enters the pot.
      Currently it shows me raising preflop 8% of the time. But this is not true, I raised 100% of the time I voluntarily put into the pot.
  • 5 replies
    • gormless
      gormless
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.01.2010 Posts: 164
      bump.

      Can someone please answer this?

      A player who raises 8% of hands preflop when he only voluntarily puts in 8% is aggressive pre-flop not passive.

      The agression factor preflop should surely be the percentage of hands a player raised where he voluntarily put in the pot, it should not include hands where he folds.

      Currently a tight agressive player is shown as tight passive (preflop)
    • LuborC
      LuborC
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2008 Posts: 1,243
      Hi,

      I don't use Elephant.
      Are you sure the stat you are asking about really is preflop aggression factor? I mean such a stat would be pretty much useless since you can easily figure this out by comparing VPIP and PFR so it would basically only take up space which could be used for one of the useful stats.

      So my guess is that the stat you interpret as preflop AF is in fact something else. Like maybe AF average?
    • gormless
      gormless
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.01.2010 Posts: 164
      When using the HUD of elephant in basic mode, it gives you 4 pieces of information, all text no figures:

      VP$IP: Tight, Loose, Very Loose etc...
      PFR: Agressive, Passive etc...
      AF : Agressive, Passive etc...
      WTS: Often, Seldom etc...

      You can get the actual stats on the player by clicking on the HUD or from the main application window.

      Now as an example a player with a VP$IP of 8% would be correctly marked as Tight for VP$IP.
      But if the PFR is also 8% they are marked as Passive. That can't be right can it ?
    • LuborC
      LuborC
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2008 Posts: 1,243
      Oh, ok.
      That does not make much sense to me so I'm afraid I can't help you here, sorry.
    • kennyxx
      kennyxx
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.05.2008 Posts: 998
      Originally posted by gormless
      When using the HUD of elephant in basic mode, it gives you 4 pieces of information, all text no figures:

      VP$IP: Tight, Loose, Very Loose etc...
      PFR: Agressive, Passive etc...
      AF : Agressive, Passive etc...
      WTS: Often, Seldom etc...

      You can get the actual stats on the player by clicking on the HUD or from the main application window.

      Now as an example a player with a VP$IP of 8% would be correctly marked as Tight for VP$IP.
      But if the PFR is also 8% they are marked as Passive. That can't be right can it ?
      This is actually correct (I don't like it though).
      You have to see those stats separately. It depends on a game You are playing so let's assume standard TAG stats at Your game are VPIP 20 & PFR 15. If VPIP is only 8%, then opponent is very very tight - correct. PFR is again just 8% - compared to preflop standards it's too low - Elephant marked him as passive (he is not raising preflop enough) - correct.
      But...
      You should try to understand the dependencies between stats. E.g. When one's VPIP is only 8% - there is no way his PFR is over 8%. You can't see if his PFR is 4 or 8 by using basic HUD (can You?), but his preflop hand range would be most likely strong - You can adapt to that. About postflop - notes becoming very usefull there.
      By using stats, notes and brain together You can extract most value out of HUD/tracking software like PS Elephant.
      It's very easy to blindly following the stats - but is it what You are looking for?

      Hope it helps ;)