[NL20-NL50] Nl 25 Sh Tt

    • Ensyfer
      Ensyfer
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.10.2007 Posts: 317
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.1/$0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Known players:
      MP2:
      $96.75
      MP3:
      $17.95
      CO:
      $25.00
      BU:
      $7.50
      SB(Hero):
      $56.25
      BB:
      $32.80


      Villain:33/14/1,3/33wtsd/85 hands

      His raise range from UTG is only 9% and i didnt want to 3bet fold so i just call his raise.
      Flop: Flop raise is mandatory here right? We are 2 stack deep and if i just call i have no idea where i am. Overcards might hit turn, plus evein if turn is low card i am in diffucult spot because i am out of position. I just raise to find where i am.
      After he raises he is representing overpair as well, JJ,QQ,KK,AA. Easy fold then?

      If we were only 100bb deep, would you play it any different?

      E

      Preflop: Hero is SB with T, T.
      MP2 raises to $0.75, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.65, BB folds.

      Flop: ($1.75) 7, 8, 6 (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP2 bets $1.50, Hero raises to $4.75, MP2 raises to $13.00, Hero folds, MP2 gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $6.5.
  • 5 replies
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      why are you check raising? youre turning your hand into a bluff. either donk the flop or ch/c...i lean towards the ch/c.
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Originally posted by wasy8
      why are you check raising? youre turning your hand into a bluff. either donk the flop or ch/c...i lean towards the ch/c.
      TT OOP sux a bit. 3-bet/f pre. He is on MP2 => looser than UTG.

      As played:
      I would c/c flop. May be youre ahead. On turn you could improve with your GS or to top set. => 6 outs

      If you dont improve and he barrels again, fold.

      T.
    • caltabiano
      caltabiano
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.03.2007 Posts: 1,992
      He's actually raising from UTG indeed. If you check in the hand, you'll see he's the first to act.

      I'm not 3betting TT against such a tight UTG raiser. I like flatting, because we have a strong hand and good implied odds against his tight range. By 3betting pre-flop, we're isolating ourselves against a super strong range and it'll be pretty tough to play post flop.


      Why are you c/ring the flop? Are you doing it as a bluff or for value? If as a bluff, which better hands is he folding? If for value, which worse hands is he calling?

      He's gonna fold all of his missed overcards and call with overpairs and sets, which beat you.

      You don't have a strong made hand and we shouldn't play big pots without strong made hands.

      So, I like c/c the flop and then play turn and river. I'm most likely folding to a turn barrel, because his value range totally crushes us.
      Never raise "just to find out where I am". Never raise PURELY for information. You always need an extra reason, such as value.

      Cheers
    • johnbeattie85
      johnbeattie85
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.09.2008 Posts: 716
      Thoughts on these situations:

      Raising here is basically just turning your hand into a bluff. Yeah you get information if he 3bets, but what's the point since your just folding and can't use it. Also you totally hate life if he just calls.

      Agree that playing it OOP is really hard. To do well in these spots you need to observe things like:

      - Cbet tendencies. What boards does he cbet on and what are his equity requirements.
      - Bet sizing tells. Betting 1.5 into 1.7 might mean a strong hand.
      - Barrelling tendencies. Does he ever second barrel? What cards/boards? Does he need pot equity?

      If you have good reads here you can extract the maximum value from bluffs, and make good cheap folds when your behind. Paying 4.50 raising for information is never ideal. + you probably have 6 outs if behind so don't want to be forced to fold.

      Alternatively, if you have don't have good information you can make rly big mistakes on the turn and river.

      In this hand I prob call flop and fold to a large turn bet. Expect his range to be quite strong – mainly overpairs or overcards. Don't see overcards second barrelling on a low turn card. On a Broadway, a lot of his range legitimately improves and there's not a lot we beat anyway.

      Example flop cbet range:

      TT: 61.314%
      99, TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, 88, 77, 66, 55, AK, AQ, KQ, AJ, ATs, Kjs: 38.686%

      Ace turn (assuming he 2nd barrels 100%):

      TT: 36.918%
      99, TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, 88, 77, 66, 55, AK, AQ, KQ, AJ, ATs, Kjs: 63.082%

      Jack-King turns you do better, but it's still hard to call since you don't know his second barrelling frequency and might have to pay another bet on the river.

      Conclusion: Playing OOP sux.
    • Ensyfer
      Ensyfer
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.10.2007 Posts: 317
      Originally posted by johnbeattie85
      Thoughts on these situations:

      Raising here is basically just turning your hand into a bluff. Yeah you get information if he 3bets, but what's the point since your just folding and can't use it. Also you totally hate life if he just calls.

      Agree that playing it OOP is really hard. To do well in these spots you need to observe things like:

      - Cbet tendencies. What boards does he cbet on and what are his equity requirements.
      - Bet sizing tells. Betting 1.5 into 1.7 might mean a strong hand.
      - Barrelling tendencies. Does he ever second barrel? What cards/boards? Does he need pot equity?

      If you have good reads here you can extract the maximum value from bluffs, and make good cheap folds when your behind. Paying 4.50 raising for information is never ideal. + you probably have 6 outs if behind so don't want to be forced to fold.

      Alternatively, if you have don't have good information you can make rly big mistakes on the turn and river.

      In this hand I prob call flop and fold to a large turn bet. Expect his range to be quite strong – mainly overpairs or overcards. Don't see overcards second barrelling on a low turn card. On a Broadway, a lot of his range legitimately improves and there's not a lot we beat anyway.

      Example flop cbet range:

      TT: 61.314%
      99, TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, 88, 77, 66, 55, AK, AQ, KQ, AJ, ATs, Kjs: 38.686%

      Ace turn (assuming he 2nd barrels 100%):

      TT: 36.918%
      99, TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, 88, 77, 66, 55, AK, AQ, KQ, AJ, ATs, Kjs: 63.082%

      Jack-King turns you do better, but it's still hard to call since you don't know his second barrelling frequency and might have to pay another bet on the river.

      Conclusion: Playing OOP sux.
      Thank you for deep analysis.
      Highly appreciated