[NL2-NL10] Instructional sample hands #3

  • Poll
    • What is the correct move here and why?

      • 26
        check/fold
        72%
      • 7
        all-in
        19%
      • 2
        check/call
        6%
      • 1
        bet $1
        3%
      Total: 36 Votes
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      NL25 No-Limit Hold'em (10 handed)

      Hero ($4.25)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with T :club: , T :spade: . CO posts a blind of $0,25.
      UTG+1 calls $0,25, UTG+2 calls $0,25, MP1 calls $0,25, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $0,25, CO checks, BU folds, Hero raises to $2,25, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $2,00, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $2,00, MP3 calls $2,00, CO folds.

      Flop: ($9,75) A :spade: , K :club: , 5 :club: (4 players)
      Hero ???
  • 13 replies
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      Hero hits "fold to any bet", only unchecks it if a T arrives and curses himself for raising TT in a family pot from the SB. This should be self explanatory.

      EDIT: Oh, short stack, missed that. I still think that completing preflop is the right play and that as played the flop is a clear check/fold.
    • undercover82
      undercover82
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 813
      He should have gone directly all in preflop to avoid exactly that situation.
      He had to raise to an amount of more than half his stack preflop , so its best to go directly all in. No hard decisions on the flop after that.
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      I'd have pushed PF to maximize FE and save any tough decisions later in the hand.

      I'm definitely pushing as played though because:

      We are getting excellent odds.

      We might have the best hand.

      We have two backdoor draws if we are behind.

      The next two players to act might throw away a K if the money is deep enough amongst the three remaining players.

      I don't like betting >50% of my stack and then folding.
    • undercover82
      undercover82
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 813
      well ,IF everyone flat calls the all in and noone tries to isolate you get around 1 to 9.
      Against a single opponent with Ax and Kx we have around 15%. If someone has a higher club our equity drops a lot more as well. I think fold might be slightly better than going all in there , usually someone will isolate you. and your pot odds will get worse.
    • FlaviaMomo
      FlaviaMomo
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.01.2007 Posts: 54
      all in on the flop cause my odds are too good to fold
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      I fold here because they are too stupid to fold a weak ace (ok that wouldd be a correct call ^^) or a king.
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      What a terrible played hand here. Sorry but preflop I either way go All-In, to collect the pot or only be heads up (and if more people call, who cares then, but at least its the right deciscion), because I´m against 6 players and if one of the first 3 to act calls, the other players behind him with a pocket pair often have to odds (including implied odds) to call for set value if we standard raise here to $2,25.

      If we no not like to push all-in here, because we know that 2 or 3 people would call anyway, we only complete and play for set value here ourselfs. End of story for that hand. ;)

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      upps, their was still a question to answer. ;)

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      I would play check/fold here, we have no fold equity what so ever, not even against a King. Any flushdraw, any weak Ace, any GSD will call us here on that limit.

      And still it was a bad preflop play in my eyes. ;)
    • MisterB73
      MisterB73
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2007 Posts: 32
      Following the SSS rules, I'd say the preflop is played ok.
      Raise (4 + limpers) x BB = 9 x BB = $2.25. The SSS says to go all-in if the raise would take 2/3 or more of our stack (which would be ~$2.85).
      Since the SSS has been carefully composed by professional players, I assume that the raise strategy of (4 + limpers) x BB is designed to get rid of the limpers with weak hands (taking implied odds into account). Also, I assume that the all-in boundary has been set to 2/3 in order to save ourselves from loosing too much if the flop is bad (which it clearly is in this case).

      On the flop we don't have a made hand and can assume that there is a very reasonable chance of having a paired A or K against us now since we are up against multiple opponents.

      That's why we won't do a conti bet, but just check/fold.
    • c4t0r
      c4t0r
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.07.2007 Posts: 60
      I voted for check/fold - with so many players in that hand its almost guaranteed that someone holds an ace or a king... contibet does not make any sense either with so many players in that hand.
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Here is the result:

      Our remaining stack on the flop is $2 and we have a pot of $9.75. According to the short stack strategy we have to go all-in here. But is that correct? The fold equity is very low – maybe 5%. But with this pot size this is a lot. In addition we have to calculate our outs. I think in this case we have 3 outs – 2 outs for the two tens and 1 out for the backdoor straight draw and the backdoor flush draw. With 3 outs we have nearly 12% equity till the river
      But if we get a call we get odds of 2:12 or 1:6 which means that our equity is nearly 14%. With 3 outs and the marginal fold equity this move is +EV. With 2 callers this move is also +EV without fold equity.

      That’s why we push here according to the strategy.

      If you didn’t understand all the calculations: that doesn’t matter. It is just important that you stick to the strategy because you will get the same result.
    • Kknight
      Kknight
      Global
      Joined: 30.04.2007 Posts: 374
      Woohoo! I'm one of the five that voted for all-in...I also agree that the preflop play was terrible though. I'd have pushed preflop.

      Kknight
    • Pacer357
      Pacer357
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2007 Posts: 1,807
      I played a hand a bit similar to this the board was Ace, two bricks two suited and I had jacks with 5 opps. I pushed with about 1/10 of the pot and the guy after me pushes for a full stack. All else folded and he showed a flush draw that didn´t hit :D .
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      Good play, that guy. If we could trust NL25 opponents to do that this would be a push for me too, but with two overcards, one of which is an A, acting first before three opponents... well, it's very close but very marginally -EV I think (I don't believe in fairies or fold equity against multiple opponents when pushing 1/5 pot, however small).