[NL2-NL10] NL25 KQ freeplay

    • MMa7
      MMa7
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2007 Posts: 75
      Villain is running 28.9/7.8/2.2 in 90 hands. No special reads/notes. I have just sat down actually.

      Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (10 handed) by Hand Converter CG

      MP3 ($33.61)
      CO ($25)
      Button ($15.23)
      SB ($6.64)
      Hero ($25)
      UTG ($26.84)
      UTG+1 ($27.10)
      UTG+2 ($19.35)
      MP1 ($4.45)
      MP2 ($24.35)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with Q:diamond: , K:club: .
      UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 calls $0.25, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, SB completes, Hero checks.

      Flop: ($1.15) Q:spade: , K:spade: , T:club: [color:"#0000FF"](6 players)[/color]
      SB checks, [color:"#CC3333"]Hero bets $1[/color], UTG calls $1, [color:"#CC3333"]UTG+1 raises to $2[/color], CO calls $2, Button folds, SB folds, [color:"#CC3333"]Hero raises to $8[/color], UTG folds, [color:"#CC3333"]UTG+1 raises to $14[/color], CO folds, Hero ?

      I've raised because obviously at least one of them was drawing to the flush, but in my surprise the guy sitting UTG min-raises me again. What it's my play here? I didn't really like raising preflop, or should I?
  • 13 replies
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      Your flop reraise should've been larger, but regardless another min raise from an opponent with remotely reasonable stats tells you that top two is no good here. This would even be a decision with bottom set if you had more money behind.

      I'm not a fan of raising KQo from the blinds against multiple opponents, it plays badly in multiway pots, it plays badly out of position and it plays badly in single raised pots with 100bb stacks.
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Originally posted by howard182
      I'm not a fan of raising KQo from the blinds against multiple opponents, it plays badly in multiway pots, it plays badly out of position and it plays badly in single raised pots with 100bb stacks.
      #2

      I would fold here on the flop, because a minraise and a call show you that it is not worth it to take another step and raise big.

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • Zeffke
      Zeffke
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.04.2007 Posts: 1,123
      I mainly agree with howard here,

      But I won't lay down a set here since you still have outs then and the other players doesn't have one regarding to the preflop play here.

      I think UTG+1 has the nutstraight here actually and isn't drawing to a flush so you have 4 outs and getting odds of 6:1 i believe if you can get his full stack.

      Grtz
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      I didn't say that you should lay down a set, I said that you have a decision with bottom set if it's deep :) . With 100bb giving you decent odds and the possibility that you're already best it would be an easy all in.

      Pot odds on the shove are, er... a bit longer than 2:1. Really not good. (But good news for a set, which is why I specified that you have to be deeper for it to be a decision.)

      Folding to just the minraise and the call is incredibly weak, that far it's only looking like draws and one pair hands. Too many turn cards are dangerous which is why I favour 3-betting. The 4-bet completely changes things, tipping most of the hand distribution into AJ. Maybe AJs in spades even. (Though if I was villain with AJs in spades, I'd only raise the flop once rather than push my luck and lose value.)
    • logitechzen
      logitechzen
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.06.2007 Posts: 90
      Originally posted by Zeffke
      I mainly agree with howard here,

      But I won't lay down a set here since you still have outs then and the other players doesn't have one regarding to the preflop play here.

      Grtz
      He doesnt have a set, he has two pair, i think u realized that just messed up a little.
      I think because UTG+1 is the villain here, he could have limped with kings or queens hoping to get raised and then reraise, wich did not happen, so i think a set here is not out of the question.
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      A set needs protection on this board and usually wouldn't be minraised. It is, of course, part of a complete range but should be given less weight.

      Hero having bottom set (and being deep stacked) was a hypothetical situation which could've played the the same way designed to show just how strong villain's line is.

      (There is a very small chance that this is a bluff on the, uh, fourth level. If so, villain thoroughly deserved the pot.)
    • undercover82
      undercover82
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 813
      Noone mentioned flat calling the minraise , is that such a bad option ? :D
      That way you can try to reach the showdown as cheap as possible , possibly folding to a bad turn/river , and you probably have the implied odds to call for your 4 outs.
      If you reraise , and then fold to a reraise or shut down after a call , you might as well have done the same thing with any 2 cards.
      I think you have some showdown value here , although certainly not worth fighting over for a full stack, on that board.
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      Unfortunately, it's a pretty bad option. There's all of $11 behind, if you're calling the money is going in. I think that the showdown value of top two here isn't worth mentioning.
    • undercover82
      undercover82
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 813
      I meant calling the initial minraise (1$ raised to 2$) instead of re-raising.
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      Ah, well... it's an option. But a lot of draws (and over a third of the deck is scare cards for us, so reducing the number of players drawing is important) and some weaker made hands won't be lost by reraising a min raise while we do want to get rid of at least one player, and the 4 bet just saves us money. We have no real motivation to get to the showdown cheaply until that happens and would've probably paid him.
    • Zeffke
      Zeffke
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.04.2007 Posts: 1,123
      I think I would have played it like undercover said actually, flat calling the min. raise on flop and look what the turn brings. I put him on AJ so I think we're behind right now and with calling the $1 we can get his full stack if we hit our full house...

      Like you played it, you have to call $6 to get about $36 which is not good enough with only 4 outs I think (I did the maths again) so I would fold here.

      Anyone thinks pushing here is an option too?
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      The point is that we don't put him on AJ at that stage. The first min raise means very little.
    • MMa7
      MMa7
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2007 Posts: 75
      After the second minraise there are not many hands that he'd that with, he's represtenting the minraise like that, "I have the nuts, come along" and I really didn't expect that second minraise.

      Thanks everyone for all the imput though, I obviously shouldn't go broke in an unraised pot :)