[NL2-NL10] SSS FR NL25 - High Pockets with Overcards - 2 Hands

    • Kknight
      Kknight
      Global
      Joined: 30.04.2007 Posts: 374
      Hand 1:
      No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed)

      Hero ($6.70)
      UTG+1 ($5.75)
      MP1 ($25)
      MP2 ($54.90)
      CO ($18.15)
      Button ($12.30)
      SB ($11.50)
      BB ($12.65)

      Preflop: Hero is UTG with K:heart: , K:club: .
      [color:#CC3333]Hero raises to $1[/color], [color:#666666]3 folds[/color], CO calls $1, [color:#666666]2 folds[/color], BB calls $0.75.

      Flop: ($3.10) 8:spade: , 7:club: , A:heart: [color:#0000FF](3 players)[/color]
      BB checks, [color:#CC3333]Hero bets $1.5[/color], [color:#CC3333]CO raises to $3[/color], BB folds, Hero folds.

      Final Pot: $6.10

      Should I have checked here against two opponents, or was the c-bet OK with KK? Was the fold to the raise correct?


      Hand 2:
      No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed)

      Hero ($5)
      MP3 ($15.40)
      CO ($23.65)
      Button ($50.65)
      SB ($36.40)
      BB ($25)
      UTG ($11.40)
      UTG+1 ($15.85)
      MP1 ($48.70)

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J:club: , J:spade: .
      [color:#666666]1 fold[/color], [color:#CC3333]UTG+1 raises to $0.5[/color], [color:#666666]1 fold[/color], [color:#CC3333]Hero raises to $1.5[/color], [color:#666666]5 folds[/color], UTG+1 calls $1.

      Flop: ($3.35) A:diamond: , 4:club: , A:spade: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      UTG+1 checks, [color:#CC3333]Hero bets $1.75[/color], [color:#CC3333]UTG+1 raises to $3.5[/color], Hero folds.

      Final Pot: $6.85

      Obvious fold to the check-raise? Should I have made a bigger c-bet based on my stack size?

      Thanks,
      Kknight
  • 7 replies
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      I think that your fold in both hands where ok.
      But one important advice for you. Try to contibet (nevertheless you hit or missed the flop) with 2/3 of the pot, so your opponents will not know what you have.

      But if you contibet with 1/2 of the pot when you missed and around pot when you hitted you become very readable. So everytime c-bet and valuebet with 2/3 of the pot. :)
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      2) If you decide to re-raise here with JJ then go all-in on the flop or check/fold it. Imo there´s no point making contibet, because your stack is the same big as the pot.
    • Kknight
      Kknight
      Global
      Joined: 30.04.2007 Posts: 374
      Originally posted by Berliner1982
      But if you contibet with 1/2 of the pot when you missed and around pot when you hitted you become very readable. So everytime c-bet and valuebet with 2/3 of the pot. :)
      Not to worry, I don't size my bet based on hit or miss, but rather on board texture. Regardless of whether I hit or not, I typically bet 1/2 pot on a relatively drawless board, 2/3 on a somewhat drawish board, and pot on a very drawish board. Is this OK? Or is there another reason for sticking to 2/3 pot rather than half?

      I find that the majority of the time my stack size is close to or only slightly larger than pot size...this being the case, if I'm going to be betting 2/3 pot as my standard c-bet, I'm going to be better off going all-in most of the time. That is another reason that I have standardized on 1/2 pot. What do you think?

      Thanks,
      Kknight
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      Their is no reason to bet pot on a very drawish board if you do not have anything, but you tell me you do it, but if you bet 2/3 you invest less and your Fold Equity will be nearly the same (a Flush or good Flushdraw calls eitherway your Potbet or your 2/3 Potbet anyway).

      So betting 2/3 of the pot anytime give your opponents no clue at all what you have. ;)
    • Kknight
      Kknight
      Global
      Joined: 30.04.2007 Posts: 374
      OK, so you're saying to use 2/3 pot pretty much 100% of the time? Never vary the size for any reason? Just want to clarify...

      Thanks,
      Kknight
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      There are lots of valid reasons to vary your cbet size. The most important for a short stack in my opinion is to give yourself an easy decision on the next street or if faced with a raise. 2/3 is a good value to tend towards though, and full pot is really so very rarely appropriate.

      However, certain boards you do want to tend towards 1/2 pot against normal opponents. These are boards which you are moderately likely to be ahead on but which are fairly hard to hit in general. The AA4 board is a good example of that (though KK4 is better).
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      1)When you bet out with KK (on an A-high board) versus a tight/decent/straightforward opponent(s) then the only time you will get action on your bet is when you are beat.

      A loose-passive/agg opponent will however sometimes give you action when you are ahead but a cheap SD is often a good direction to head. Some L-P types will call PF with a small A and check it down (especially multi-way).

      I find some loose-agg opponents very difficult to credit with a hand in many situations. Depending on pot/stack sizes, no. of opponents and action I will sometimes c/r AI if OOP or if IP check behind and call ANY turn bet.

      Some savvy types may also see a flop check in a multiway pot as an indicator that you have trash on the flop and your hand CAN SOMETIMES have more value as a bluff-catcher once again.

      Therefore I wouldn't have bet that flop. I would have checked in the hope of receiving some additional information.


      As Berliner mentions, it is sometimes necessary to hide information from your opponents by varying your bet-sizes. If you suspect that this is necessary (perhaps your opponent has 11/8/2ish stats with a 20% ats is from Germany and is therefore likely a PS member themselves) then 2/3 pot bets make sense. You could even try to value-bet with 1/2 pot bets as well if you think these will get you extra action when you want it. There are lots of ways that can make youself a more difficult opponent to play against.



      Originally posted by howard182
      There are lots of valid reasons to vary your cbet size. The most important for a short stack in my opinion is to give yourself an easy decision on the next street or if faced with a raise.
      Size of pot, size of stack and opponent (also). Quite how you use this info. to choose an optimum bet-size I'm not too sure. I for one would be very intersted to know what has been said on this very important subject in the German Forum.