Effective Stack in SnG's

    • Smileyphil
      Smileyphil
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.10.2008 Posts: 488
      Hi everyone, I am mostly a SSS player but have recently been trying SnG's. I have read all the basic/bronze literature and am starting to try to play a successful SnG strategy.

      The articles display 3 strategies. One for "early" play, one for "middle" play and on for "push or fold". I understand each of these in its own right but am sometimes unsure of when to use each.

      For example if I am on the SB with 40BB's left and the BB has only 5BB left. Everyone else has folded. Do I play according to the early chart? Because I personally have plenty of time to wait and am effectively "early" in the tournament. Or should I play according to the push and fold charts in order to put pressure on a a player because of our effective stacks of 5BB?

      Similar situation if I am on the BB with 40BB's left and a 15BB player open raises from the BU. Everyone else folds. Do I resteal because our effective stack is in the middle stage or do I fold because I personally am in the early stage?

      I feel like staying in the early stage when presented with a good push opportunity is missing chips but then I don't want to imperil myself by playing looser than is necessary.

      Comments?
  • 10 replies
    • Roachor
      Roachor
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.01.2010 Posts: 357
      You should play according to your and your opponents stack.. so if he is in the "push of fold" phase you should play according to that phase..

      Most of the time its not rlly "worth it" to try a resteal cause the blinds are still so low.

      its all about surviving to the final 3 and win some cash !


      A lost chip is worth more than a won chip (or that how it goes? )

      I could be completely off since i just started playing and still learning and learning (well in poker you keep on learning).

      regards,
    • Smileyphil
      Smileyphil
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.10.2008 Posts: 488
      Lets have a "concrete" example. The problem with concrete examples here is I'm looking for a more general idea of how to play.

      BU (Hero) = 25BB
      SB = 5BB
      BB = 8BB

      Hero holds A9s. We can see the effective stack is 8BB because that is the highest stack to act after us.

      Now we have a problem. Do we shove our A9s or do we fold and wait for a better opportunity?

      Arguments for the shove:
      - Puts pressure on short stacked opposition.
      - Allows us to gain chips.
      - Our hand is probably ahead of a calling range.

      Arguments against the shove:
      - Makes our image looser when we generally want a tight image in SnG's (for fold equity)
      - If we are called and lose we have lost 1/3 of our stack and are much closer to being in the danger zone.
      - The chips won are worth less than the chips lost.
    • Roachor
      Roachor
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.01.2010 Posts: 357
      hmmm, ive been breaking my head on this 1..

      1 | you can play aggresive and go all-in but risk of beeing called with lower pairs etc and lose much of your stack.
      2 | you can play tight and just fold this hand, letting them fight over 2nd place and just wait till 1 is out or till you hit a "playable" hand (ak, lower pairs etc)
      3 | you can make a 3x BB value bet and see if they either push or fold and make a decision on that.

      I think (i only won 2 out of 30 sng's atm so could be off) i would pick option 2 and dont take any risks.
    • sngkid
      sngkid
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.12.2009 Posts: 6
      you must consider number of opponents remaining also. push fold really only becomes relevant when a number of opponents are out approx down to last 5/6 in full rng. that usually is when blins are also larger in prportion to stack sizes. I personally would still operate under early game conditions if i am deep, even against shorties, if there are still say, seven or more players, as these shorties will usually call very light as they know they have to double up to regain their fold equity and its unlikely they can wait for others to bust. just my two penneth
    • thepowerplay
      thepowerplay
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.10.2009 Posts: 81
      Yep... # of players is key info for me too. If I'm short handed, I'm probably pushing with A9. If I'm three handed, I'm for sure pushing with A9.
    • frzl
      frzl
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      it´s just a push. and it´s a good and standard one.

      push fold really only becomes relevant when a number of opponents are out approx down to last 5/6 in full rng.
      no. it´s true that this is often the case but in general push/fold becomes the main strategy when you are getting too short to make a normal raise because the contibet will commit you/there isn´t enough space to play postflop... and that doesn´t depend on the number of players but on the stacksizes.
      e.g. if the blind are 200/400 and everybody somehow kept his starting stack of 1500 chips it doesn´t make much sence to raise to 2.5-3bb despite there are still 9 players left right? :) (extreme example of course)
      but it´s definately true that OP should add some more informations when he "posts" a hand. the number of other players and there stack sizes are important as well but i still can´t see this becoming a fold ^^
    • nibbana
      nibbana
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.12.2009 Posts: 1,186
      SmileyPhil - do you have SNG Wiz ?

      It's all about the SNG Wiz
    • gedwashere91
      gedwashere91
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.07.2009 Posts: 2,387
      I still can't work out how to use the damn SNG Wizard. Is there a guide anywhere??
    • frzl
      frzl
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      mh there is a video guide by unam but it´s in german language ;)
      what´s your problem?

      btw: at the official page there are video tutorials. might be helpful
    • 8979687
      8979687
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2008 Posts: 2,225
      I think Chenny8888 uses the wizard in at least one of his videos.

      And it is in silver or bronze videos and in English.

      Its been a while so sue me if I am wrong.

      BTW frzl knows what he is talking about.