QQ problem

    • Jackalof
      Jackalof
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 1,462
      In full ring, if someone raises, you 3-bet with QQ and get a 4-bet (both start with 100BB), is it best to just fold the hand?

      I know it's quite abstract, but assume you have no reads + you play Rush poker meaning players are tighter than normal (I think). So I think you can't beat much with QQ in 4-bet pot or?
  • 4 replies
    • amplifyd
      amplifyd
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 1,769
      I've been thinking about this too. If we assume they 4-bet with TT+ then we only have a v.slight edge on equity:

      Equity Win Tie Loss Hand
      Player 1: 50.010 % 44.082 % 11.856 % 44.062 % QQ
      Player 2: 49.990 % 44.062 % 11.856 % 44.082 % TT+

      If we restrict the range further to JJ+:

      Equity Win Tie Loss Hand
      Player 1: 41.099 % 33.674 % 14.850 % 51.475 % QQ
      Player 2: 58.901 % 51.475 % 14.850 % 33.674 % JJ+

      And (and this for rush poker I think is the most reliable range) QQ+:

      Equity Win Tie Loss Hand
      Player 1: 41.099 % 33.674 % 14.850 % 51.475 % QQ
      Player 2: 58.901 % 51.475 % 14.850 % 33.674 % JJ+

      I only play Nl10 so this could be different to the limits you play - but I think a ok rule of thumb is unless we are against a shorter stack I just play QQ on implieds.
    • Jackalof
      Jackalof
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 1,462
      I think a ok rule of thumb is unless we are against a shorter stack I just play QQ on implieds.


      Does this mean we should call a 4-bet and hope to hit a set?
    • amplifyd
      amplifyd
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 1,769
      Originally posted by Jackalof
      I think a ok rule of thumb is unless we are against a shorter stack I just play QQ on implieds.


      Does this mean we should call a 4-bet and hope to hit a set?
      I think it varies on the odds they are laying us and how much they have behind. If they dont have a full stack I tend to just get all in because these are the types who i've seen shove with worse. But if we are both have >100BB i'll call a fair amount I've only played 10k hands of rush btw so my opinions are judged on that.
    • johnbeattie85
      johnbeattie85
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.09.2008 Posts: 716
      amplifyd: Your not considering the possibility of villain 4betting and folding to a shove. Or the possibility of villain 4betting AK and calling.

      Jackalof: It's hard to answer this since it depends on reads so much. I'm usually really happy 5bet shoving for value, but if your with a lot of tight players that might be a mistake. Also depends on hero/villian table position etc.

      Best solution is to go over hands in the limit you play and see what people usually have in pre flop all ins. Not sure if tracking programs or whatever work for rush poker yet?

      No you can't call a 4b for set value unless really deep.