[NL2-NL10] SSS FR NL25 - Preflop Re-Raises

    • Kknight
      Kknight
      Global
      Joined: 30.04.2007 Posts: 374
      Question is at the end of the thread because it is the same question for both hands.

      Hand 1:
      No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed)

      BB ($12.40)
      UTG ($31.65)
      UTG+1 ($25)
      MP1 ($24.65)
      MP2 ($30.80)
      CO ($24.65)
      Hero ($5)
      SB ($21.95)

      Preflop: Hero is Button with J:heart: , J:spade: . UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.25.
      [color:#666666]1 fold[/color], UTG+1 (poster) checks, [color:#666666]1 fold[/color], [color:#CC3333]MP2 raises to $1[/color], [color:#666666]1 fold[/color], [color:#CC3333]Hero raises to $3[/color], [color:#666666]2 folds[/color], UTG+1 folds, [color:#CC3333]MP2 raises to $30.8[/color], Hero calls $2 (All-In).

      Flop: ($10.60) 5:club: , 2:spade: , 3:diamond: [color:#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)[/color]

      Turn: ($10.60) 4:club: [color:#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)[/color]

      River: ($10.60) 6:spade: [color:#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)[/color]

      Final Pot: $10.60


      Hand 2:
      No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed)

      MP3 ($13.75)
      Hero ($5)
      Button ($18.15)
      SB ($27.20)
      BB ($18.60)
      UTG ($27.15)
      UTG+1 ($23.80)
      MP1 ($24.30)
      MP2 ($19.40)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with Q:spade: , Q:heart: .
      [color:#666666]3 folds[/color], [color:#CC3333]MP2 raises to $1[/color], [color:#666666]1 fold[/color], [color:#CC3333]Hero raises to $3[/color], [color:#666666]3 folds[/color], MP2 calls $2.

      Flop: ($6.35) 9:heart: , K:heart: , 8:spade: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      [color:#CC3333]MP2 bets $3[/color], Hero calls $2 (All-In).

      Turn: ($10.35) K:spade: [color:#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)[/color]

      River: ($10.35) 5:diamond: [color:#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)[/color]

      Final Pot: $10.35

      OK...so in both hands, I have a "Raise/Reraise" hand. In both cases there is a 4BB raise in front of me. A standard re-raise is 12BB or $3. My stack is 20 BB or $5. The guide says that if a raise is 2/3 of your stack, just go all in. Now maybe I'm splitting hairs, but 12BB is 3/5 of a 20BB stack, which is not quite 2/3...but it's still enough to pot commit me if I get even one call.

      So two questions: First, should I have just gone all-in preflop with both these hands? And second, if the answer is yes, then that seems likely to be the case in 90%+ of all preflop re-raise situations (unless the first raise is unusually small (either min-raise or 3BB)...so I'm wondering if the guide should say if a raise is at least 1/2 your stack to go all in? Because in general, any more than that commits you...doesn't it?

      As a side question, in Hand 2, I had to call that flop bet, right?

      Thanks,
      Kknight
  • 4 replies
    • henne007
      henne007
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.05.2007 Posts: 2,143
      don't know the answer to your question.


      but in all 2 hands, i think i would hold on two my 2 dollar.
      first one seems like AA/KK
      and second one i think he hits with AK
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      Heads up against a short stack the preflop 4-bet doesn't mean AA/KK exclusively any more, many weak opponents are willing to get it in with hands as weak as AQ in that spot and certainly AK. With 60% of your stack in preflop (you might as well just push if you're going to put that much in btw) you only have to win 40% of the time to break even on the call, which you'll easily achieve as long as your opponent's range isn't just overpairs. (Never forget that you have to include a small possibility, especially against a relative unknown, that they're making a play which you wouldn't expect even in your models with wider hand ranges. e.g. I was limp/reraised all-in by A2s the other day by a player with solid stats who I hadn't seen do anything out of line (I called with KK).)

      In hand 2... the fold is probably okay, although folding for a half pot bet is really weak in general. That line is what it looks like most of the time. Again, reraising directly all in is probably preferable.

      (You absolutely are splitting hairs about the commitment threshold from the SSS, your play in both hands shows that you understand this.)
    • Kknight
      Kknight
      Global
      Joined: 30.04.2007 Posts: 374
      Originally posted by howard182
      many weak opponents are willing to get it in with hands as weak as AQ in that spot
      You're right on the money Howard. Hand 1 was AQo...Hand 2 was KQo.

      Originally posted by howard182
      e.g. I was limp/reraised all-in by A2s the other day by a player with solid stats who I hadn't seen do anything out of line (I called with KK).)
      A couple of weeks ago, I had AJs on the button. There was an early position limper who limp-raised me all-in after my raise. I called in accordance with stack-size to raise ratio. He had A9o and completely blew his lid, cursed like crazy in the chat box and went on MASSIVE tilt when I won the hand. He went all-in every hand for the next 5 or 6 and went busto.

      Thanks for reinforcing my thoughts on these hands Howard (re-raising all-in immediately.)

      Kknight
    • howard182
      howard182
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2006 Posts: 416
      Ugh, what was I talking about with 40% win required? 20%. Thank god I fell asleep for a few hours early in the evening rather than playing poker.