Surviving the horror of stack shrinking

    • L3ST
      L3ST
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 413
      I play SNG's ( 6,9,27,90 players ). Nice word btw, sounds pirate-ish. I usually play very calm in the first 20 mins, half an hour. I call a couple of times to see the pot, maybe I play a hand or two or get re-raised on my raise and fold.

      My problem is when the stack gets shorter. I start with 1500, maybe get to 1600, then down to under 1000. Blinds are rising, I get a little more agressive but usually don't get anything. The grand finale is me going all in with 600 chips. Sometimes I win, but mostly I lose on this. Stealing the blinds doesn't work with 600 chips when the others have 2000+ ,3000+. Usually there's one guy calling.

      How can I avoid this?
  • 13 replies
    • thedrui
      thedrui
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 22
      Play even tighter the first 2 levels and don`t raise with anything you would not go all inn with if you get reraised
    • LuborC
      LuborC
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2008 Posts: 1,243
      There is a whole strategy section on SNGs..
      And then there is the ICM trainer (created for 9 man SNGs but it's possible to get some info out of it even for MTT SNGs).
      Also if you're playing 90 mans then you can definitely use MTT strategy.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      you probably have huge leaks in the push/fold game. download ICM trainer ASAP
    • L3ST
      L3ST
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 413
      alejandrosh - you're absolutely right, but your PS status should be enough to know that QQ/KK/AA on the end of the SNG are to dream of.

      Anyway, just watched a coaching 4 table SNG and got some more tips, not feeling that down about the stack shrinking anymore.
    • zhenzhenZHEN
      zhenzhenZHEN
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.04.2009 Posts: 190
      waiting for QQ KK AA? Dude, download/train on ICM trainer - quickest way to get better. You'll learn that you can push so many hands profitably...and u can even push any two cards in certain situations..

      Btw, go to the coaching on sunday and watch chenny8888 play, it'll help alot. you can ask him qs there too :)
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Originally posted by L3ST
      alejandrosh - you're absolutely right, but your PS status should be enough to know that QQ/KK/AA on the end of the SNG are to dream of.

      Anyway, just watched a coaching 4 table SNG and got some more tips, not feeling that down about the stack shrinking anymore.
      Hello!

      Please be a little more polite towards alejandro as he is just trying to help you :) . The ICM does not have much to do with QQ/KK/AA, quite the opposite. The ICM will help you learn how to profitably push hands like 67s, KTo or sometimes even any two cards. It certainly is a long learning process, but I am sure that you will understand the basics in no time. As for the leaks, everyone has them. Of course you mainly have to study (read the articles, watch videos, attend coachings, post hands in the hand evaluation section) by yourself, but we are also here to help you perfect your game. As I am a SNG player myself, I have to agree with the rest of the members here that ICM will help you the most in the push or fold phase. Good luck with learning!

      Best regards,

      Primzi
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      From what im hearing u play too loose. Remember that QQ/KK/AA are to dream of
    • L3ST
      L3ST
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 413
      Didn't mean to offend. The thing is on the ICM trainer I get like 90% right on all the lessons. I can't say that I follow the playing chart all the time, usually due to the hands i'm being dealt. I have my leaks, but getting beat with AA or AKs by AJo A4o 42o etc couple of times in a row on all in showdowns really yanks my chain.

      I've been watching some SNG coaching and drawn the conclusion that being the short stack is not that bad, I saw some pretty nice comebacks and did one on my own just tonight getting from 4th ( out of 4 ) in chips to 2nd in the money on a 6 man sit and go.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hello!

      We use the ICM trainer to perfect our ICM - 90% is unfortunately not as good as it sounds. The problem is that most of the situations in the default ICM setting are pretty easy decisions that even a person without the ICM knowledge could get right. Try aiming for 98-99%, that should be interesting :) . I know that many players, especially if they play the turbo SNGs, do a few hundred hands in ICM before each session they play. For a beginner, that is certainly very good :) . You can also study the articles about ICM to get the general idea of why do we act according to it. Bad beats happen to all of us (I often end sessions 10BI under EV) and are completely normal, you just need to take your mind off results and concentrate on your play. The EV lines will come back together sooner or later. Of course a conservative bankroll management (100BI+) is a very useful tilt preventing tool ;) . Of course being a short stack isn't that bad, it's rather a standard situation in the push or fold phase. When you learn how to play profitably in that stage, it's the funniest stage of all :) .

      Best regards,

      Primzi
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      Originally posted by alejandrosh
      hahaha :D

      :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:
    • L3ST
      L3ST
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 413
      Originally posted by alejandrosh
      I can't believe this! My nose is definetly not that big!
    • stevegold87
      stevegold87
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.06.2009 Posts: 2,640
      Originally posted by Primzi
      Hello!

      We use the ICM trainer to perfect our ICM - 90% is unfortunately not as good as it sounds. The problem is that most of the situations in the default ICM setting are pretty easy decisions that even a person without the ICM knowledge could get right. Try aiming for 98-99%, that should be interesting :) . I know that many players, especially if they play the turbo SNGs, do a few hundred hands in ICM before each session they play. For a beginner, that is certainly very good :) . You can also study the articles about ICM to get the general idea of why do we act according to it. Bad beats happen to all of us (I often end sessions 10BI under EV) and are completely normal, you just need to take your mind off results and concentrate on your play. The EV lines will come back together sooner or later. Of course a conservative bankroll management (100BI+) is a very useful tilt preventing tool ;) . Of course being a short stack isn't that bad, it's rather a standard situation in the push or fold phase. When you learn how to play profitably in that stage, it's the funniest stage of all :) .

      Best regards,

      Primzi
      99-98% ?
      I think 90% is actually pretty good IMO. Sometimes, ICM will tell you to fold your hand (For example Q7s) and the PUSH cards were Q8s+.

      It happends to me all the time and I consider that pretty stupid. IMO 90-95% is good.