Fraustrated with MTT.

    • onepark
      onepark
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.07.2009 Posts: 970
      Hi All,

      Im just very fraustrated with MTT...

      Ive been playing $2 MTT alot. Trying to be good at MTT.. However Every single time It seems like im busting out on bubble..

      Almost 50 MTT and not even cashed onces. Most of time out on mid stage of torny or just before bubble (around 3-10 player left).

      I like to read bit more about Torny strategy articles however they are only available from Silver. However its really hard to go to silver by playing micro SNG or MTT.

      Today I played 3 $2 MTT. and ALL 3 of them I got out just before the bubble. Obviously I dont just want to make it to money. so I try to be aggressive around bubble.

      Any Tips??

      Thanks
  • 12 replies
    • rap1dw1n3r
      rap1dw1n3r
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.02.2009 Posts: 266
      if you didint got into the money once that means you are doing something wrong try going to 1$ MTT's
    • evertonroar
      evertonroar
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 737
      I cant see that there is a big difference between the $1 and $2 mtt. Very difficult to provide any advice however given that you give no info on how you play or the situations you have problems with (except that you play agressive on the bubble.

      Some suggestions that may help:
      lossen your starting requirements a bit earlier (say when then antes kick in)., if you are always getting near the bubble, it sounds like you dont loosen up earlier enought (lossen but dont be stupid). This may mean that you suruve a long time but have no fold equity when you reach the bubble.

      If you are always going out at the bubble, you may be calling to loose (with to many hands) or not stealing enough in positon. read about ICM, read about playing the bubble and the middle stages. and dont give up.
    • PkChamp
      PkChamp
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2009 Posts: 9
      hi
      i recommend you read harrington on holdem volume 2! its a very good read. in the short time since ive finished reading it my results and general play have improved a butt load. It covers M sizes in good detail which in turn will increase your itm finishes. It also has a guide to making plays and a lot of sample hands which he analysis very well.
    • MJDNCH
      MJDNCH
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2010 Posts: 10
      may i ask what is ITM and what are the tools/softwares use to help in it? I noticed a lot of abbreviation used which i guess i've to pick up on.

      I had the same problem like the TS and always crash out during the bubble or before the the bubble.

      The better strategy are all on silver medals read. :(
    • evertonroar
      evertonroar
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 737
      ITM = in the money
    • fusionpk
      fusionpk
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,683
      Try $1, think about it, if your not very good, you need to learn, how do you learn, practice? You can play double the volume by playing $1's. Im not an MTT player, but I think the saying goes, tight to start with, as you approach higher blinds, late stages you loosen up in position and steal some pots etc. (Probably better off some MTT expert advising you on this).

      When your on the bubble don't just go all out aggressive, still consider what you're doing, why you're doing it and if it's worth it. I hear playing ICM around the bubble is good? Although i've never done it since like I say, I don't play MTTs.
    • evertonroar
      evertonroar
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 737
      still sounds like you dont have enough chps when you get near the bubble. you want to be agressive around the bubble (controled aggression), but you need fold equity. You need to be able to raise and win hands without a showdown. if people can call your all ins because you dont have enough chips to scare them then you will keep bubbling
    • santostr
      santostr
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2009 Posts: 663
      Well, of course if you are playing $2 MTTs you have to improve. So do I.
      But that's the thing about MTTs: Sometimes you play a lot of MTTs and don't get ITM. Frustrating...
      On the other hand, if you win 1....
    • Ultifanatic
      Ultifanatic
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.04.2008 Posts: 100
      Onepark...I have a few quick things to ask you in regards to your MTT playing.

      1. You are playing $2 MTTs, are these Full field or fixed field? ( so are they open to 5000 entrants or are they 180 man MTT SnGs?). There is a big difference to the two of these and the have different times to sqitch gears in. You may just be not switching gears at the right time to acculumate chips during the middle to late stages.

      2. Speaking of switching gears, do you play the normal tight early stage, open up middle stage, aggressive bubble stage MTT or something different? The normal style is not nearly as easy as it sounds since you have to take into count the fields dynamic, the table you are at and the level of post flop play you have with poker.

      3. Brings me to the level of post flop play you have...are you new enough to poker that you have not developed your post flop play very much? If so, then you will struggle for quite some time with MTTs till you hit a good run of cards during a MTT session. Post flop play is too important when you start getting agressive, which could be the reason why you bubble alot. You might not have the post flop play to make the plays needed to accumulate chips.

      4. Do you study your MTTs after you play them? If you do not use HEM or PT3 and mark all your interesting, confused, lost hands for review plus reviewing where you could have increased your chip stake through agressive moves. Then you are just playing MTTs blind and will most likely never really improve.

      5. Do you understand the MTT beast as a whole. If you are trying to make 1st every time you play an MTT, the likelyhood that you will not even cash at all is quite a bit higher then if you were going to play MTTs to juts make it in the money. Playing the small margins on hands to chip up will take yoru stake more often, especially if you are new to poker and do not quickly calculate the margins.

      Lastly is not a question but a point to make....MTTs are great to score large bits of cash or prizes....but in the long run they take much more time, dedication and studying to master than most of the other formats of poker.
    • akrammon
      akrammon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 3,142
      I don't think you should move down to $1. MTTs has the highest variance. If you want to be a successfull MTT player you have to accept it too. Playing aggressively (not madly though) as bubble closes in is The Good Strategy. Keep doing it, just dont go mad about it. I'd better get in the mobney once every 50 times but win the tournament that one time that get in 20 times per 50 and be the last one to be paid. (EDIT: at least with Pokerstars' incredible first prizes [final table prizes actually] even in low/micro MTTs)
    • bradomurder
      bradomurder
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,329
      I had a similar problem for ages.

      what helped me a lot was switching to super turbo 45 seat tourneys. these are fast and give you heaps of bubble practice and heaps of ICM practice, also it helps you realise the hands people play because there is usually a showdown, make notes and consider their calling ranges before using ICM by the book. most people at the $2 level play too loose to make some of the shoves reccomended by ICM trainer profitable

      if you get a one of the top stacks on the table dont throw it away by trying to abuse the table too much, pick your spots and the players you can steal from.

      remember that to keep a consistant stack you only need to steel blinds once per round. I find thinking of that helps when its real stressful

      get tracking software. VP,PFR,3bet and limpfold are really useful stats when the blinds get huge
    • rhinoneil
      rhinoneil
      Silver
      Joined: 16.04.2008 Posts: 1,159
      Originally posted by Ultifanatic
      Onepark...I have a few quick things to ask you in regards to your MTT playing.

      1. You are playing $2 MTTs, are these Full field or fixed field? ( so are they open to 5000 entrants or are they 180 man MTT SnGs?). There is a big difference to the two of these and the have different times to sqitch gears in. You may just be not switching gears at the right time to acculumate chips during the middle to late stages.

      2. Speaking of switching gears, do you play the normal tight early stage, open up middle stage, aggressive bubble stage MTT or something different? The normal style is not nearly as easy as it sounds since you have to take into count the fields dynamic, the table you are at and the level of post flop play you have with poker.

      3. Brings me to the level of post flop play you have...are you new enough to poker that you have not developed your post flop play very much? If so, then you will struggle for quite some time with MTTs till you hit a good run of cards during a MTT session. Post flop play is too important when you start getting agressive, which could be the reason why you bubble alot. You might not have the post flop play to make the plays needed to accumulate chips.

      4. Do you study your MTTs after you play them? If you do not use HEM or PT3 and mark all your interesting, confused, lost hands for review plus reviewing where you could have increased your chip stake through agressive moves. Then you are just playing MTTs blind and will most likely never really improve.

      5. Do you understand the MTT beast as a whole. If you are trying to make 1st every time you play an MTT, the likelyhood that you will not even cash at all is quite a bit higher then if you were going to play MTTs to juts make it in the money. Playing the small margins on hands to chip up will take yoru stake more often, especially if you are new to poker and do not quickly calculate the margins.

      Lastly is not a question but a point to make....MTTs are great to score large bits of cash or prizes....but in the long run they take much more time, dedication and studying to master than most of the other formats of poker.
      This is exactly what I would be asking.

      Mtts are very difficult to master because you have to maintain concentration for long periods without playing a hand.

      My advise is this:
      Get hold of pokertracker or Hold Em Manager and learn how to understand the HUD stats.

      Play some 10 seater stts so you get more experience of playing on bubble and close to it

      If you are playing big field type mtts, leave them for a while and try 18 or 45 man mtts, again to gain experience of the overall mtt strategy.