LAG training videos for sng's??

    • txfoyochipz
      txfoyochipz
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.07.2009 Posts: 32
      Hi everybody,

      I have been playing $8.80 20 player sng's (10min blinds) on Pacific lately and very often I see very loose players taking these tourneys down.

      For example I was playing 1 an hour ago and there were 2 LAG players at my table. They would limp almost every pot (never raise), and postflop would bet small probing bets when checked to 90% of the time or lead out when out of position with small bets. They also called almost every bet if it wasnt too big and were obviously outplaying some of the bad players at the table by bluffing and valuebetting on the river.

      Usually when I see players play like this in a sng I immediately lable them as fish, but these guys were 888players with very good stats on sharkscope. They were very hard to play against with my TAG style, and I found myself getting frustrated by the other players just giving them their chips and them "getting lucky" so often. It looked like one of them would flop trips, river a flush, straight or even a higher pair every other hand. X(

      I mean, I took some of their chips off them by checkraising a couple of occasions, but they would just bounce back by sucking out on someone else.

      Anyway, I finished the tourney on the bubble (6th). Mainly because I didn't pick up a decent hand the whole final table, but also because I was cautious of playing against these guys and I was trying to avoid being bubbled.... :D . So all in all their strategy worked brilliantly!!!

      I have to say that I would love to be able to play like that. I know it takes a lot of experience and u need to know when to get away from your marginal hands or when to make sick calls.

      I would love to see a training video of a good player using this strategy on 20-50 player sng's and be able to hear their thought processes. Maybe a good idea, being that most of the coaches play TAG. IMO the LAG approach of these guys is a great way of winning these sng's. I speak out of experience as I often get outlasted by these types of strong players. They seem to be taking more advantage of the fish AND of other very common TAG players.

      Any feedback on this subject would be much appreciated.

      TXFO :s_cool:
  • 12 replies
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      I am not aware of any GOOD player that adopts this strategy and I have watched almost every video out there to do with sng's including multi table ones.

      If they are limping everyhand and sucking out then that gives you your answer right there....they are not good players just lucky.

      20 man sng's you dont really need to be any loser than in a 9 man or 10 man sng.
    • Atoks
      Atoks
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,376
      The info u provide is too scant. It's hard to determine if they are truly LAG or if they just make it seem that way. It's not easy to accumulate enough chips to be able to effectively play a LAG or be in correct spots to abuse people for long enough (unless the field is really really weak then maybe). It also seems a bit counter-intuitive if they fire small probing bets. A good player will adapt quickly and exploit them in a bad way. The type of LAG u describe would have a VERY hard time winning on the PokerStars SnG MTTs.
    • Navrark
      Navrark
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.01.2010 Posts: 313
      Originally posted by txfoyochipzMaybe a good idea, being that most of the coaches play TAG
      If the coaches are able to play TAG and win against the LAG's why can't you?

      I'd say that if you can win at $1/$2 playing TAG then you may have enough experience to start playing LAG at $0.01/$0.02 (or whatever the equivalent in SNG would be)

      Nav
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Search those players on sharkscope and take the result into consideration only if they played 1000 games. You'll probably see no one playing like that winning money.

      In my opinion LAG is better than TAG IF and only IF you are very experienced. This is because your play in unpredictable, your opponents cannot put you acurately on a range.

      But not in SNG's. No way. In huge deep stack tournaments, or deep stack cash games it's another thing.

      An exception is SNG short handed play, especially 3 players. Depending on my opponents and our stacks i may choose a little laggy-blind stealing aproach.
    • Andre
      Andre
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2005 Posts: 1,443
      Hey txfoyochipz,

      sounds like an upswing. about what Samplesize do we speak?

      Greetz,
      Andre
    • txfoyochipz
      txfoyochipz
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.07.2009 Posts: 32
      Originally posted by lennonac
      If they are limping everyhand and sucking out then that gives you your answer right there....they are not good players just lucky.
      .
      According to their stats they are winning players with over 10K profit according to sharkscope. It seems to me they are adjusting there play to the other bad players at the table. I cant say they play that way all the time, but because the other loose players are very bad and the majority of the field play too tight they are taking advantage of that.
    • bah22
      bah22
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 28.01.2008 Posts: 4,207
      If they are LAG they should raise not limp...especially later in SNG. So they are Loose passive preflop and aggresive postflop,right? I assume there are not so many good players on the tables to exploit their weaknesses. LAG style works in SNG when you are close to the bubble with big stack or if u are deep enough. There are so many players like them in PS, FTP but they are the fishes in these SNGs(especially MTT SNGs).
    • txfoyochipz
      txfoyochipz
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.07.2009 Posts: 32
      Originally posted by Atoks
      The info u provide is too scant. It's hard to determine if they are truly LAG or if they just make it seem that way. It's not easy to accumulate enough chips to be able to effectively play a LAG or be in correct spots to abuse people for long enough (unless the field is really really weak then maybe). It also seems a bit counter-intuitive if they fire small probing bets. A good player will adapt quickly and exploit them in a bad way. The type of LAG u describe would have a VERY hard time winning on the PokerStars SnG MTTs.
      I am not sure if LAG is the right way of calling it. It's more of a small ball approach. They play almost exclusively post-flop poker. Playing passively pre-flop, but very aggressive post-flop. Outplaying their opponents, winning alot of small pots by betting in position and getting paid off when they have a hand.
      For me it was very frustrating to play against these guys, because they dont give up their hand easily and are impossible to put on a range.
      While I was watching them play I was sure they would bust out sooner or later. However, they had the top 2 stacks by a mile when i got busted.
      Also, I must add that when the blinds reached 200/400 they tightened up considerably. They would still limp the button and cutoff regularly, but they weren't as loose as in the early stages.
    • txfoyochipz
      txfoyochipz
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.07.2009 Posts: 32
      Originally posted by bah22
      If they are LAG they should raise not limp...especially later in SNG. So they are Loose passive preflop and aggresive postflop,right? I assume there are not so many good players on the tables to exploit their weaknesses. LAG style works in SNG when you are close to the bubble with big stack or if u are deep enough. There are so many players like them in PS, FTP but they are the fishes in these SNGs(especially MTT SNGs).
      Exactly right. The thing is, by playing like this on a table where the majority is playing too tight, or the loose players suck at playing post-flop they can gather a decent stack quite quickly and almost dominate the play. This forces me to play even tighter when someone like that has position on me. If I don't catch any cards it becomes really hard to build a stack.

      I am not saying that I think it is the best way of playing sng's. I do believe that if a good player uses this strategy well it is a good alternative to a TAG strategy. I would love to see a coach using a loose strategy on SNG's or MTT's and explaining his thoughts and why it can be profitable. This can also gives an insight into the mind of other loose players and it could help alot of players.
    • Leito99
      Leito99
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.07.2009 Posts: 754
      there is a player who plays like that who i play against regularly cuz its on a small site

      the way i play against him is make sure you play good hands exactly the same as your week hands...

      when you bluff them show it as this annoys them a bit and since they risk chips constantly its good if they dont play at their strongest...

      they will start raising you more so u'll be afraid of them and dont check raise them...
      make high continuation bets when you hit and they will often see this as high card ace and raise you

      also dont be afraid to get it all in against them

      they can call you with weeker hands then most others because they know you know they bluff a lot and might want to bluff them back

      thats how i play against the guy i know who plays similarly....and it works for me


      and i would also like to see coaches play LAG-style
    • Devillus
      Devillus
      Basic
      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 5
      thats how i play against the guy i know who plays similarly....and it works for me too
    • Navrark
      Navrark
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.01.2010 Posts: 313
      Originally posted by txfoyochipz
      I am not sure if LAG is the right way of calling it. It's more of a small ball approach. They play almost exclusively post-flop poker. Playing passively pre-flop, but very aggressive post-flop. Outplaying their opponents, winning alot of small pots by betting in position and getting paid off when they have a hand.
      For me it was very frustrating to play against these guys, because they dont give up their hand easily and are impossible to put on a range.
      While I was watching them play I was sure they would bust out sooner or later. However, they had the top 2 stacks by a mile when i got busted.
      Also, I must add that when the blinds reached 200/400 they tightened up considerably. They would still limp the button and cutoff regularly, but they weren't as loose as in the early stages.
      Actually txfoyochipz, I have encountered players like this myself lately and yes, they are very difficult to play against. They always hit a hand on the flop - well - they always play like they do, and everyone just folds to them over and over. Consequently with the blinds so large they build their stack up quickly playing this way.

      The players I have seen play like this are not smart players, but they are very hard to play against when they have a big stack because they play every flop as though they have a hand. You never know where you stand with them, and so you decide to play aggressively assuming they have nothing and they show an overpair.

      Nav