[NL2-NL10] NL2 - Set of Tens on CO - Opp = Tight Passive

    • Navrark
      Joined: 27.01.2010 Posts: 313

      Did I play this right? I knew he didn't have a Flush draw because he'd only likely call my raise with an Ace and the Ace on the board was a heart. I suspected he had top pair Aces.

      I just called on the Flop because I wanted him to be willing to put more money into the pot.
      I re-raised on the Turn because I wanted to start eating away his stack now that he was somewhat pot committed.
      I bet $0.46 on the River because that was what it took to put him All In, while hoping he didn't have a heart, but there was no going back at that point anyway...

      I believe he was a Tight Passive.

      Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed)

      MP3 ($2.02)
      Navrark (CO) ($2)
      Button ($6.22)
      SB ($2.62)
      BB ($1.76)
      UTG ($3.57)
      UTG+1 ($0.30)
      MP1 ($1.74)
      MP2 ($3.05)

      Preflop: Navrark is CO with 10, 10
      4 folds, MP3 calls $0.02, Navrark bets $0.10, 2 folds, BB calls $0.08, 1 fold

      Flop: ($0.23) 10, 9, A (2 players)
      BB bets $0.13, Navrark calls $0.13

      Turn: ($0.49) 4 (2 players)
      BB bets $0.46, Navrark raises to $1.07, BB calls $0.61

      River: ($2.63) 8 (2 players)
      BB checks, Navrark bets $0.46


  • 5 replies
    • Jaissica
      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 1,385
      Unfortunately mate what youve posted is a classic example of slowplay gone horribly wrong.

      Now this is a very, very wet flop. Not only is there an ace out there to get people to pay you, there are two hearts and connected cards. So not only are there made Ax hands to pay your set, there are draws that will pay to see the turn as well.

      So the correct action on this flop is to raisy daisy. Sometimes BB is just on a bluff and might fold. Thats going to be rare. Most times BB here has Ax, two hearts and/or a straight draw and will call your flop raise, to say 40 cents. Not only do you need to protect against draws, you get value out of them. With a set you are going to have a hard time laying down against a likely flush, as your turn and river play shows. So get the money in while you are probably in front, not when you might be behind :)

      The turn is a scare card and here we check behind or call and re-evaluate river.

      River you check behind or probably fold to a shove.
    • Navrark
      Joined: 27.01.2010 Posts: 313
      Thanks for the reply Jaissica!

      He actually was the one doing the slow playing as he just called my raise pre-flop with pocket Aces and he hit top Set on the Flop. He didn't have the Flush.

      I was beaten to begin with, but I understand your advice. His Flop bet seemed weak to me - though it was 1/2 pot size - and that's why I choked and just called as I was fearing I'd scare him away. I should have re-raised there at least 2/3 pot size because of the draw possibilities, though I just knew he didn't have a Flush Draw, I didn't even think about a Straight Draw.

      My concern mostly is with whether or not I should have realized he had something better than top pair since he was willing to call my bets. Yes, I played it wrong, but should I have known I was beaten earlier?

      That's what really bothers me, will players happily give up their stack with top pair top kicker? I suppose probably in NL2 they will follow along that blindly but as I move up the stakes I doubt they will fall that easily. Also I want to be able to recognize when it's my stack being eaten by a Set.

    • Jaissica
      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 1,385
      Well point number one to remember is it is almost-never "bad play" to get all in and lose set over set. A set is a monster and when you hit one on the flop the very best thing to be would be all-in. Even on a triple suited, connected board getting all in on the flop is still generally fine as even vs a flopped flush or straight you have 7 then 10 outs to bust them.

      So even though you were smashed, the most commonly correct play on that flop (double suited with two connectors, ace high) was to play bet-raise-shove.

      There is no way you could know you were beat by a set of aces. No way at all. The fish misplayed his aces and unfortunately for you got very lucky.

      Now for your second question, that depends on alot of things. It depends on the player themselves (are they aggressive? passive? strong? weak? calling station, nit or sherriff?) and their image of you (do they see you as any of the previous?).

      If you are seen as a nit, you are unlikely to be called here by AK for stacks, though some sherriffs will hero-call. If you are seen as aggressive, alot of other aggressive players might well call you down after a flop raise but fold if the obvious draw hits (they reasonably consider you might be raising with a draw). Really aggressive players will even shove the flop there.

      Nit villains will never stack off TPTK, calling stations will call 3 streets but probably not even bet with it, weak-tights will probably do what stations will do.

      Now avoiding set mines is no easy task, but you can give yourself a slight edge. You need to look at what type of player is raising you on the flop.

      (VPIP PFR 3bet AF)

      Lets say you hold AK in middle position. You raise and are cold-called by the button and the flop is Ah 7h 6d.

      This player raises your flop bet -

      8 3 1 1.0

      This is a nit. He isnt getting his money in without 3 of a kind or at least TPTK. He is never going to semi bluff with a draw. You fold here. Sometimes, very rarely, you are folding to a split (TPTK). Most the time though such a villain will call 3 streets with TPTK.

      Tihs player raises your flop bet -

      22 14 6 4.5

      This player calls alot of suited and connected hands, looking to take advantage on suitable flops. They will raise with any 4-draw - OESD or flush draw. They will often raise on any rag flop hoping to scare you away.

      This player you 4bet on the flop and consider your position if they shove. Alot of the time though you will be calling down this sort of player with TPTK.

      This player raises your flop bet -

      15 12 4 3.0

      This is pretty much a standard regular 10H TAG. They have called you in position and are going to take advantage of that. This player will put you in a very tough position OOP. You need to consider what your own image is in this spot. Have you been playing a little weak and maybe they think they can fold you off a pair of aces? Have you been a bit of a pay off wizard, calling down like the table sherriff? If youve been playing weak you can turn your hand into a bluff catcher and just call. If youve been sherriffing you should expect them to be value betting a set. You can assume they put you on a pair of aces, and they probably dont often cold-call AK. Maybe sometimes AQs, AJs.

      If you dont have Elephant and the HUD installed, get it and use it. The stats are a wonderful aid to helping you make these decisions. No doubt one of the most common hard decisions is flopping a strong TPTK or overpair when you are re-raised or check-raised on the flop and knowing what sort of player is re-raising you is absolutely critical :)
    • Navrark
      Joined: 27.01.2010 Posts: 313
      Thanks so much Jaissica, you are very knowledgeable!

      It's such a relief to know that I couldn't avoid losing my stack there,

    • MaestroOfZerg
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510

      Don't feel like there is much of anything to add at that point, good job Jaissica. :)