[NL2-NL10] SSS FR NL25 - Two Hands

    • Kknight
      Kknight
      Global
      Joined: 30.04.2007 Posts: 374
      Hand 1:
      No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed)

      UTG+1 ($13.40)
      MP1 ($25)
      MP2 ($23.20)
      MP3 ($27.85)
      CO ($17.45)
      Button ($1.70)
      SB ($9.25)
      Hero ($5.50)
      UTG ($25.10)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 5:club: , K:club: .
      [color:#666666]1 fold[/color], UTG+1 calls $0.25, [color:#666666]4 folds[/color], Button calls $0.25, [color:#666666]1 fold[/color], Hero checks.

      Flop: ($0.85) K:heart: , 6:club: , T:heart: [color:#0000FF](3 players)[/color]
      Hero checks, [color:#CC3333]UTG+1 bets $0.25[/color], Button folds, Hero calls $0.25.

      Turn: ($1.35) 5:spade: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      [color:#CC3333]Hero bets $0.75[/color], UTG+1 calls $0.75.

      River: ($2.85) T:club: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      Hero checks, [color:#CC3333]UTG+1 bets $1[/color], Hero calls $1.

      Final Pot: $4.85

      Top pair on the flop, but crummy kicker. I figured the pot odds were OK to call the min-bet. Hit two pair on the turn...probably should have bet a little more (maybe $1 or $1.25?) Counterfeit on the river. Fold here?


      Hand 2:
      No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed)

      UTG ($14.75)
      UTG+1 ($5.60)
      MP1 ($17.85)
      MP2 ($10.50)
      MP3 ($34.70)
      CO ($24)
      Button ($15.60)
      SB ($28)
      Hero ($5.25)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with A:spade: , A:club: .
      [color:#666666]2 folds[/color], [color:#CC3333]MP1 raises to $0.5[/color], [color:#666666]3 folds[/color], Button calls $0.50, SB calls $0.40, [color:#CC3333]Hero raises to $5.5[/color], MP1 folds, Button folds, SB folds.

      Final Pot: $2

      I'm not sure what to do here...a normal re-raise would be $2.50 regardless of whether you want to count the min-raise as a raise or as a double-limp. That probably would have been enough to weed out at least one or two of the callers, but I was concerned that if MP1 made the call, the other two might have the pot odds to call as well. I really didn't want to play my AA against three other opponents, which is why I went with the push. Do you think that was a good decision, or should I have just stuck with a $2.50 re-raise? I'm not too upset with winning 6BB here, but I possibly could have won more.

      Thanks,
      Kknight
  • 13 replies
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Hi Kknight!

      Hand 1) I would bet more on the turn (~$1.20) and even call his small bet on the river. The odds you are getting here are too good.

      Hand 2) Nice hand! You gave the reasons yourself: you don't want to play against three opponents with AA. You would have left only $2.50 on the flop which means it would be difficult to protect your hand against draws.

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      Hand 1.)
      Bet Potsize on the Turn to protect against a FlushDraw. A King might will push you and you find an easy Call and on the River you can move All-In since you should be Pot Committed anyway.


      Hand 2.)
      Hard to answer that without more reads. I guess I would bet $3 to be pot committed and able to go All-In on any Flop, since your preflop Fold Equity is still good enough to make suited connectors and low Pockets (22 - 66) to fold.
    • Kknight
      Kknight
      Global
      Joined: 30.04.2007 Posts: 374
      Hand 1 - Thank you to both of you.

      Hand 2-
      Originally posted by Berliner1982
      Hand 2.)
      Hard to answer that without more reads. I guess I would bet $3 to be pot committed and able to go All-In on any Flop, since your preflop Fold Equity is still good enough to make suited connectors and low Pockets (22 - 66) to fold.
      Originally posted by Puschkin81
      Hand 2) Nice hand! You gave the reasons yourself: you don't want to play against three opponents with AA. You would have left only $2.50 on the flop which means it would be difficult to protect your hand against draws.
      Uh-oh! Conflicting answers ;) Does that mean that it is a close call between the two lines and either one is acceptable?

      Thanks,
      Kknight
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      I guess its more like different preferences how to play hands like AA in these specific situation. ;)

      And if MP1 just calls you´re often in a good shape against AQ or Pocket Pairs that only have 2 Outs. If he holds AK, KK or QQ he often will Raise All-In to isolate you.
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Of course not :D

      If you bet $2.50 or $3 you are pot committed anyway and have to go all-in on any flop. But because you think that MP1 might call your raise giving the other opponents the odds to call and having a multiway pot you have to protect your hand against the drawing hands of your opponents. Since you cannot protect your hand on the flop (no draw would fold to a $2.50 bet in a $10 pot) you have to do this already preflop. So my conclusion is: nice hand! :D

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • Kknight
      Kknight
      Global
      Joined: 30.04.2007 Posts: 374
      OK, thanks.

      No offence Puschkin, but I think I'm going to lean towards Berliner's advice here since this is an SSS hand. If it were BSS though, I'd likely be leaning your direction. ;)

      Thanks both of you for the feedback in any case,
      Kknight
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      Why should MP1 calls - besides he is a moron?
      With a Pocket Pair he does not want to play in a multiway Pot here, because with overcards he often has to fold if he missed his set, and even with AQ he can not call. If he wants to play against Hero, he would be a fool not to push to isolate Hero against BU and SB.

      And still or Fold Equity even with $3 is good enough that we are not 3 or 4 handed on the Flop.

      And if everybody calls, we are still in a good position and playing +EV in the longrun.

      Besides, pushing directly often looks more like a weaker hand then if you keep a bit on of your stack and commit your self. So its a bit of the metagame as well. ;)
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Ok....but consider the following action:

      You raise to $2.50 and get three callers. The pot is $10 on the flop. You have $2.50 left.

      The flop comes K:heart: , Q:diamond: , J:heart:

      SB checks. What do you do?
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      Originally posted by Kknight
      OK, thanks.

      No offence Puschkin, but I think I'm going to lean towards Berliner's advice here since this is an SSS hand. If it were BSS though, I'd likely be leaning your direction. ;)

      Thanks both of you for the feedback in any case,
      Kknight
      Thanks for that compliment. :) But you can also stick to the analysis of Puschkin, sometimes afterwards I like his evaluations better then mine. ;)
      And sometimes the way you play those hands depends what line you personal prefer.

      Puschkins evaluation is right as well and his line is also good. But sometimes one question can give your more then one right answer. ;)
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
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      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      Originally posted by Puschkin81
      Ok....but consider the following action:

      You raise to $2.50 and get three callers. The pot is $10 on the flop. You have $2.50 left.

      The flop comes K:heart: , Q:diamond: , J:heart:

      SB checks. What do you do?
      Easy Push here, cause if they called preflop, they often only will do that with medium Pocket Pairs (22-TT) any other Pocket Pair would have raised preflop. And consider that 95% of the times only Pocket Pairs called (maybe AK, AQ, AJ) and only sometimes KJs, KQs, OJs or maybe Axs in heart I´m still in a very good shape. And in the rare case I´m behind against a Straight or Two Pair, I still have Outs for my Set or the Straight, that would split the Pot.

      So a board like 6 7 8 would be scarier, but honestly I guess in maybe 1 of 10 times maybe just 1 of 15 times you are 4 handed after that preflop action and even then you often enough are ahead on the flop.

      But maybe I´m giving my opponents still to much credit and they often Call with crap any time, then I would push as well, since it doesn´t matter. ;)
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Of course you push, but you have no chance to protect your hand against draws, like you have it preflop. Even on a 678 board. It's the same thing. You have no chance to protect your hand.
      And if MP1 is minraising preflop he is stupid enough to simply call the raise of Hero instead of coming over the top. That's why I think we will be more often up against 3 opponents than 1 out of 10 times.

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • Kknight
      Kknight
      Global
      Joined: 30.04.2007 Posts: 374
      Hmm...good discussion. I guess this is a tough decision from either point of view.

      I hope you didn't take my comment as an insult Puschkin...I do trust and greatly appreciate your judgement and advice :)

      The flop comes K:heart: , Q:diamond: , J:heart:

      SB checks. What do you do?
      I'd have to say push the KQJ two-flush flop. With that big of a pot, you don't have to win very often to come out ahead.

      sometimes one question can give your more then one right answer.
      Quite true :D

      Thanks again to both of you,
      Kknight
    • gutshotstraightdraw
      gutshotstraightdraw
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.07.2007 Posts: 112
      I definitely agree with Pushkin. AA has an equity of 64% preflop against 3 opponents. But it drops down to 40% if a flop like 8:heart: , 7:heart: , 6:spade: appears on the board. So imo we have to push all-in preflop to protect the hand. Remember: we only have a pair which is very vulnerable in NL especially against multiple opponents.