Great reads getting crushed.

    • Menschdefekt
      Joined: 13.06.2009 Posts: 27
      How do you deal with good reads that simply get crushed by the river?

      Past 4 days, been through 18 1.10$ DoN games at pokerstars. One or two, are bad calls and i deserv to loose. but so many are good calls that get beaten by running cards.

      Take the last two games for example.
      I limp in SB with j2 suited, the BB checks. I flop a flush. Ace, queen, five. He makes a weak bet. Ok, he has a striaght draw, maybe trips or limped with AK?? I raise it 2.5 times the bet, i dont have the nuts but im 100% sure he doesnt have a flush... He shoves, I call he has trip aces, nice read. Turn is a 2, I still have it... river is the case 2. Im out.

      Game before, SB always preraise my BB 1.5x, and keeps it up. I have KQ suited, heads up. Last time I had 9's and reraised him, he called and chased with 85. Earlier he shoved a reraise by UTG with 25s and flopped a striaght...
      On this info, I reraise all in. I think he has a king, but not as strong as mine. He calls I was right, K4o.
      I lost.

      Ace jack suited vs Ace 2.... hits trip 2's....

      I have gone from 27$ BR now on 8.18$
      How do you deal with such bad beats by such bad plays? I cant go down a level Im micro stakes as it is ... I dont know what to do. .25c games are no better.
  • 3 replies
    • corsc
      Joined: 03.11.2009 Posts: 171
      Recently I had a series of suck outs like this and I did the following, some or all might help you.

      1) Read/Reread the psychology sections here

      2) As a result of this reading I played less and went down a limit, even though I didnt need to.

      3) I spent some time watching poker on utube and happened to find the WSOP final table from 2009. After watching this and seeing the tonne of crazy suckouts on that table I felt a lot better knowing that if it can happen to them at that level it can surely happen to me

      Hope this helps getting you back on track
    • noclaninator
      Joined: 01.12.2008 Posts: 312
      How to deal with being crushed on the river in double or nothings:

      Learn to play double or nothings properly

      And by this I mean stop playing your cards. More than any other tournament format, the double or nothing is about playing your opponents and their stack sizes.

      For example suppose the blinds are 75/150 ante 15 you are in the small blind with 1400 chips (and to prove a point I am not going to say what you have). Your opponent in the big blind has 2400 chips. It is folded to you. This is an easy push. Your opponent has a lot of chips and you will cripple him if he loses.

      Seriously you are complaining about cards losing to cards. There is so much rake and so little prize in these double or nothings that if you just play your cards you are bound to lose. Players are bad but if you stack off with AQ against K4 or something you have a 40% chance to lose. LOSE!

      You need to win 55% of your double or nothings just to break even. You have a 40% chance to lose with AQ in this double-up and even if you win its not a guarantee that you win. All it takes is you losing two more all ins and you are out.

      Here is how you should play a double or nothing:


      You play RIDICULOUS tight in the early stages. Fold AQ in early position should be very standard as should pocket tens possibly. If you get all in with AK in the early stages you are never a favorite so play this hand very cautiously. Calling a raise rather than reraising not only serves to keep the pots small but to disguise your hand. Setmining loses value in a double or nothing. If you try to play pocket fours most of the time you will lose 60 or 80 chips. You only need to add about 500 or 1k chips to your stack to win this game. Most of the time you will not double up with your set anyways. A strategy of folding every single hand is not far off in the early stages. With AK you are looking to play a 2bet pot and keep it small to minimize your losses with a marginally +$ev hand. AA KK QQ you raise to get it all in. Be careful with Jacks; you may want to play a small pot or a big pot depending on the player.


      Assuming tight table:

      The blinds are 25/50 and an ante of 5 has just been introduced. With 10 players this means a whopping 125 is in the pot and this belongs in YOUR STACK! If you can imagine the players folding hands like KJ, T9s to your raise then raise BU, CO, MP3 all day long. You are risking 150 to win 125 so if it works more than 55% of the time then you are laughing. 50/100 ante 10 same plan but now shorter stacks will feel pressured. If you played 25/50 right then you probably have about 1700 or so chips in your stack anyways.

      Assuming loose table:

      You cannot steal blinds to help your stack so you are really in a battle against time here. Be more willing to go broke with AK and JJ now. A well timed all-in reraise can add 300 chips to your stack assuming no call. Add AQ and TT to your early position starting hands from early position. Take whatever the cards allow you to until the blinds reach 100 or 150. The exception is if you still have 2 or 3 idiots who have to play every pot at your table. They will commit suicide in short order so stay very tight.

      Late stages:

      Now your cards DO NOT MATTER (read: do not matter). Your cards are worth so little that focusing on them is a mistake simply because it will distract you from concentrating on what matters. COVER THEM UP IF YOU hAVE TO!!! The person to your left might have doubled up and if they have you can be sure they will tighten up a lot. Your 86 offsuit just became a very +ev push against this player. If you miss ONE PUSH it is costing you 300+ chips. Here are some examples of the spots you should look for:

      You have xxxx chips in XX position. All the players ahead of you have 1.5x starting stack or more. Easy push all in here.

      You have 2k chips in the bb (usually you will have this stack at a tight table after stealing some blinds). Late position limps or raises small-ish with a similar or slightly bigger stack. You have an easy resteal all in simply because you will never get called.

      You have 1100 chips in MP3 (usually you have this stack at a loose table when you get dealt no good hands). You have a lot of chips and in a double or nothing you just don't get called very often. Push as high as 60% or 75% of your hands here.

      Remember that bigger stacks will fold to you! As the short stack you are the one with the power because you have nothing to lose. Any big stack who calls you could potentially lose the double or nothing if they lose the pot. Pushing is correct in a lot of situations. Add the antes to this and your crazy all-in shoves with J2 make more and more sense to you.

      Often you will be faced with a decision of whether to call a shove with A9. Assuming a short stack is shoving to you it is usually an okay play to make this call since it is correct for them to push any two. Before you autocall just look to your left. You might find some guy with 2500 chips. You can then fold the A9 knowing that you will get to take his blind or someone else's. Do not look at the call in isolation. Look at the big picture.

      If you are a big stack: OTHER BIG STACKS ARE STILL AFRAID OF YOU!!!!!!!!! Don't just go into fold-everything mode. If you have 3k chips in the sb and the bb has 3500 chips at 150/300-30 then you still push all in. Some people will even fold AA to you! (and often they are correct in doing so). The 600 chips may not be worth much to you but its free chips so just take it. It's there and its free so why not.

      As you can see my approach is far different then you will find on pokerstrategy.

      With my strategy often the AJ will get pitched to an all in or pitched because its the early stages (because know....trash). I don't play too many double or nothing's but I've maintained a 20% ROI over 500 games at the micro limits and I don't think it is impossible for you to do the same. Before you go talking about your downswing, ask yourself if you are playing properly and what mistakes you made (there are always plenty for every player at every stake). You can whine about your poor luck about getting sucked out in a 75-25 situation all day long. The fact is all that should matter is improving your game. I wish you the best of luck.
    • Menschdefekt
      Joined: 13.06.2009 Posts: 27
      Cheers guys.

      I have been reading Phil Shaw's "secret's of sit and go's" and it's been great. The hard part is players to play with some sort of sense.

      And yes your right, I focus too much on my cards and not on the player. Its a hard habit to break, but I am getting better.